Hi all,

Well, where do you start?

I have not done very much research in the past apart from reading the odd NDE account on other websites, so anything written are my own thoughts and feelings without anything to back them up

Firstly, when it comes to life after death I hope there is something but solely for selfish reasons. If I am honest, I would say I have always wondered about death and I am scared of it. Sometimes I lie in bed by myself and really think about dying and the thought of never coming back terrifies me. Growing up, I always had this strange feeling I was going to die young (25 at the moment). I don't know why, but even though I so dearly want a long, happy life and experience the joy of having children, it just feels as if it is not going to happen. Obviously I hope my feelings are wrong!

But my mind really can't seem to grasp the existence of an after life. I mean, OK what if there is a heaven or some other realm we go to. Are we there forever? What do we do there? It just seems so hard to believe.

When you in REM you wake up in the morning and remember nothing of the 7 hours (or whatever) of sleep that you have had. For those hours there was nothingness, just like what I think death is like.

I have an open mind on everything. I am not a religious person, so have my own feelings on how we got here and why we are here. Science has more answers for me than religion. Everything just seems so perfect to be true.

Do good, go heaven.

Do bad, go hell.

I always wonder, if a child is born and locked in a room and just fed food to be kept a live and has no contact with people, then what are its beliefs? Does it believe in god? What does it know about religion?

In a weird sort of way, I can imagine reincarnation happening. We are after all made out of the same matter as everything else, so in some sort of way, once we are one with the ground we can then become part of another being which is born?

Think I have gone of track a little bit, but would love to hear your thoughts and experiences on anything I have written.

Thanks.

I read you're post, and you and I think a lot alike. When I was young, I too thought I would die young, 27 now...Also I am with you on the whole going to sleep at night thing being like death...but think about it, When you are sleeping, you are at peace. SO the worst thing that happens to us when we die, is just peace...don't be scared of death, because we all do it someday : ) Take care

Gee wrote:Hi all,

Well, where do you start?

I have not done very much research in the past apart from reading the odd NDE account on other websites, so anything written are my own thoughts and feelings without anything to back them up

Actually, most people who believe, or not, are speaking from their own thoughts (beliefs). Only those who actually experienced an NDE can claim otherwise. However, they can only speak of their experience because not all are identical. While the core elements remain the same, not everyone has a similar experience.

Firstly, when it comes to life after death I hope there is something but solely for selfish reasons.

What selfish reason(s). To exist? What's so selfish about wanting to exist?

If I am honest, I would say I have always wondered about death and I am scared of it.

Most people wonder about death and are afraid of it. However, the reasons for the fear vary. But if I were to guess, I would believe that it's not so much the fear of death, but rather how one dies.

Sometimes I lie in bed by myself and really think about dying and the thought of never coming back terrifies me.

Try thinking of something else then! In any event, I would not be so concerned about whether or not you're coming back. Because if there is an afterlife and all the NDE accounts are true, you wouldn't want to come back. And if there is no afterlife, then you would never know you're not returning because you would experience nothing!

Growing up, I always had this strange feeling I was going to die young (25 at the moment). I don't know why, but even though I so dearly want a long, happy life and experience the joy of having children, it just feels as if it is not going to happen. Obviously I hope my feelings are wrong!

There is a theory that states that you can make things happen if you think about them (thoughts are things). Since you want to live a long life and experience the joy of children, stop thinking of death. Whenever the thought comes to mind, change it to something that makes you happy. Picture yourself as a mother with children. Or picture yourself as a grandmother with lots of little ones running around. Just get your mind off of death.

But my mind really can't seem to grasp the existence of an after life. I mean, OK what if there is a heaven or some other realm we go to. Are we there forever? What do we do there? It just seems so hard to believe.

Yeah, eternity is an impossible concept to comprehend. And that's because we are creatures who are subject to the space-time of this universe. But in reality, time is relative (in this universe) and does not exist as we understand. So if there is really no past, present, and future, eternity is a little easier to comprehend.

As for what we would do there, well, I guess this depends on each individual! If much of the literature I've read is true, we continue to study and spiritually evolve. But as I understand it, we progress at our own pace. So if you just want to kick back at some lake for an eon or so, then this is your option.

When you in REM you wake up in the morning and remember nothing of the 7 hours (or whatever) of sleep that you have had. For those hours there was nothingness, just like what I think death is like.

If there is no afterlife, this would be exactly what death is like!

I have an open mind on everything. I am not a religious person, so have my own feelings on how we got here and why we are here.

It's probably a good thing you're not religious because an open mind is key to exploring all options. Religion tends to offer a very narrow view.

Science has more answers for me than religion.

Science has more answers for most people than religion does. And why shouldn't it? But be carerful it does not become your dogma because then you would be less inclined to explore all options, which is really what science is all about! Also bear in mind that science and spiritual matters are not mutually exclusive nor are they incompatible. It is only ones dogma that makes them incompatible.

Everything just seems so perfect to be true.

Please clarify.

Do good, go heaven.

If it exists, yes.

Do bad, go hell.

What do you mean by hell? Anyway, most who have an NDE will tell you they saw no evidence for a stereotypical hell, while others will tell you that hell is what we make it. Meaning it is not necessary to die to experience hell since you would be basically creating your own. For example, your fear of dying could be your hell.

I always wonder, if a child is born and locked in a room and just fed food to be kept a live and has no contact with people, then what are its beliefs? Does it believe in god? What does it know about religion?

Personally, I would say yes, the child would have some concept of God. Why? Because humans are born believers. For whatever the reason our brains are wired to believe in a god. Also, since I believe in reincarnation, it is my belief infants still retain a memory of the life between lives. It is only through conditioning do we eventually reject the supernatural.

BTW, I hope all you do is to keep wondering about this because such an experiment would be unethical and illegal.

In a weird sort of way, I can imagine reincarnation happening. We are after all made out of the same matter as everything else, so in some sort of way, once we are one with the ground we can then become part of another being which is born?

Well, this is not the standard definition for reincarnation. But your argument does make sense in a weird sort of way. Allow me to ask, what makes you conscious and the matter you would become one with not?

Think I have gone of track a little bit, but would love to hear your thoughts and experiences on anything I have written.

Thanks.

Well, I don't know if my response is what you were looking for but it is what it is. Also, since I'm at work right now and am typing this during my lunch hour, I don't have much time to go into more detail. Perhaps this is possible as the discussion progresses?

fuzoid
http://www.live365.com/stations/fuzoid

Jason wrote:I read you're post, and you and I think a lot alike. When I was young, I too thought I would die young, 27 now...Also I am with you on the whole going to sleep at night thing being like death...but think about it, When you are sleeping, you are at peace. SO the worst thing that happens to us when we die, is just peace...don't be scared of death, because we all do it someday : ) Take care

I'm going to try.

Why worry about something you can not change I guess?

What selfish reason(s). To exist? What's so selfish about wanting to exist?

Well, I guess when you but it like that.

I feel a bit guilty and selfish because I'm not too sure I believe in God or another being, but hope there is something so I do carry on existing.

Most people wonder about death and are afraid of it. However, the reasons for the fear vary. But if I were to guess, I would believe that it's not so much the fear of death, but rather how one dies.

Good points. I wonder if I think about death more than the average person?

Try thinking of something else then! In any event, I would not be so concerned about whether or not you're coming back. Because if there is an afterlife and all the NDE accounts are true, you wouldn't want to come back. And if there is no afterlife, then you would never know you're not returning because you would experience nothing!

Again, good points. In a sense I guess there is nothing to fear, but I hope there is an afterlife rather than it being nothing.

There is a theory that states that you can make things happen if you think about them (thoughts are things). Since you want to live a long life and experience the joy of children, stop thinking of death. Whenever the thought comes to mind, change it to something that makes you happy. Picture yourself as a mother with children. Or picture yourself as a grandmother with lots of little ones running around. Just get your mind off of death.

Thats a scary thought. To think something I worry about could actually be moulding my future!? I'm going to try and think positive about life and imagine the things I want in life like you have recommended.

Just to let you know though...I am male! When I said I wanted kids, I never meant to physically give birth to them, LOL

Yeah, eternity is an impossible concept to comprehend. And that's because we are creatures who are subject to the space-time of this universe. But in reality, time is relative (in this universe) and does not exist as we understand. So if there is really no past, present, and future, eternity is a little easier to comprehend.

As for what we would do there, well, I guess this depends on each individual! If much of the literature I've read is true, we continue to study and spiritually evolve. But as I understand it, we progress at our own pace. So if you just want to kick back at some lake for an eon or so, then this is your option.

Its seems some people experience a feeling of all knowing...as if they have all the knowledge they could ever want at their finger tips. If this is the case, then what exactly are we studying if we know everything?

If there is no afterlife, this would be exactly what death is like!

We agree on something.

Science has more answers for most people than religion does. And why shouldn't it? But be carerful it does not become your dogma because then you would be less inclined to explore all options, which is really what science is all about! Also bear in mind that science and spiritual matters are not mutually exclusive nor are they incompatible. It is only ones dogma that makes them incompatible.

I understand. After all, there are plenty of questions science can still no answer.

Everything just seems so perfect to be true.

Not explaining myself very well here. It just seems too much like human, earthly proceedings.

Like doing a crime and going to jail. Do bad things in life and go to hell or come back as a slug.

I don't believe it.

What do you mean by hell? Anyway, most who have an NDE will tell you they saw no evidence for a stereotypical hell, while others will tell you that hell is what we make it. Meaning it is not necessary to die to experience hell since you would be basically creating your own. For example, your fear of dying could be your hell.

I don't believe in hell. However, I hear stories of eternal burning etc.

If there is no hell and we all go to a heavenly like place, then what does it matter what bad things we do here if we all go to heaven anyway!?

Personally, I would say yes, the child would have some concept of God. Why? Because humans are born believers. For whatever the reason our brains are wired to believe in a god. Also, since I believe in reincarnation, it is my belief infants still retain a memory of the life between lives. It is only through conditioning do we eventually reject the supernatural.

BTW, I hope all you do is to keep wondering about this because such an experiment would be unethical and illegal.

I personally think it is due to conditioning that we believe in God and thoughts of afterlife.

I don't believe that dogs, cat, beetles and slugs know of any type of God, being or afterlife. Personally I think it would be the same of a child in the scenario I mentioned.

And of course I would never imagine doing anything like that to a child! I wouldnt do it to a pet, nevermind a human!

Well, this is not the standard definition for reincarnation. But your argument does make sense in a weird sort of way. Allow me to ask, what makes you conscious and the matter you would become one with not?

Well, we are made out of the same matter and particles of everything else in this world. So maybe in some strange way we become part of somebody or something else once we pass.

I don't or have had any flash backs or thoughts of a previous life if that is what you mean?

Well, I don't know if my response is what you were looking for but it is what it is. Also, since I'm at work right now and am typing this during my lunch hour, I don't have much time to go into more detail. Perhaps this is possible as the discussion progresses?

Thanks for taking the time to reply and share you thoughts. I was actually waiting and hoping you would reply

Gee wrote:Why worry about something you can not change I guess?

Why, indeed!

I feel a bit guilty and selfish because I'm not too sure I believe in God or another being, but hope there is something so I do carry on existing.

In my opinion (IMO), you are worrying yourself for nothing. If all the NDE accounts I've read are true, a belief in a god, or lack of, is not a requirement for the afterlife. Regardless what the Abrahamic religions claim, God is not some jealous and wrathful ego-maniac demanding adoration for all eternity.

Allow me to ask, what do you believe life is? Do you think it is nothing more than an emergent property of the brain due to neuronal activity? Or do you believe it is something more, like a type of energy? IMO, we are energy occupying a body for a purpose. As I've mentioned previously, if our universe is truly holographic in nature, which all the evidence seems to point towards, there is no way possible consciousness can be an emergent property of the brain since our bodies are also part of the holomovement. It is our consciousness which interprets the wave function as objective reality. And for whatever the reason, our consciousness seems to be playing a role in the holoverse. IMO, this implies purpose. While this doesn't necessarily mean there is an afterlife, if we are truly energy rather than physical matter, then continued existence seems to be implied.

fuzoid wrote:Most people wonder about death and are afraid of it. However, the reasons for the fear vary. But if I were to guess, I would believe that it's not so much the fear of death, but rather how one dies.

Gee wrote:Good points. I wonder if I think about death more than the average person?

I can't answer this. And I doubt very seriously if any sociologist ever conducted a statistical analysis regarding this topic. And a psychologist or psychiatrist would probably want to medicate anyone so fixated on death. Suffice to say, since all humans die, all humans think about their mortality. But I would have to believe those with more to lose think about it more often than your average person. But I have no evidence to support this belief.

My advice, stop thinking about death so much. Find a hobby or do something, anything, to keep your mind occupied. Being so fixated on death cannot be a healthy thing.

fuzoid wrote:Try thinking of something else then! In any event, I would not be so concerned about whether or not you're coming back. Because if there is an afterlife and all the NDE accounts are true, you wouldn't want to come back. And if there is no afterlife, then you would never know you're not returning because you would experience nothing!

Gee wrote:Again, good points. In a sense I guess there is nothing to fear, but I hope there is an afterlife rather than it being nothing.

IMO, there is absolutely nothing to fear about death, only how one dies. We would all prefer to slip away during our sleep. Who in their right mind would want to die a horrible pain filled death?

Although I doubt very seriously if I can convince you that there is an afterlife, perhaps the anecdotes of those who have experienced an NDE can? If you haven't already, check out this NDE site:
http://www.near-death.com

And if this isn't convincing enough for you, check out the site for the International Association for Near Death Studies at http://www.iands.org. This site is maintained by doctors and scientists who study the NDE and are convinced that the experience is legitimate and offers a glimpse into what awaits us when we die.

Thats a scary thought. To think something I worry about could actually be moulding my future!? I'm going to try and think positive about life and imagine the things I want in life like you have recommended.

There is research which supports negative thinking can have negative consequences. For example, a hypochondriac. Believing they are ill all the time can induce an illness. And if it is true that our consciousness is creating objective reality out of the holographic wave function, then it's quite possible negative thinking can influence how one interprets the wave function, changing it in the process. Think positive thoughts and this is what you will attract to yourself.

Just to let you know though...I am male! When I said I wanted kids, I never meant to physically give birth to them, LOL

Yeah, that's what I get for assuming. LOL!!! Usually when someone says they want to experience children, they are female. To experience implies child birth. And while men also want children, it is probably due to their desire to pass their genetic material on.

fuzoid wrote:Yeah, eternity is an impossible concept to comprehend. And that's because we are creatures who are subject to the space-time of this universe. But in reality, time is relative (in this universe) and does not exist as we understand. So if there is really no past, present, and future, eternity is a little easier to comprehend.

As for what we would do there, well, I guess this depends on each individual! If much of the literature I've read is true, we continue to study and spiritually evolve. But as I understand it, we progress at our own pace. So if you just want to kick back at some lake for an eon or so, then this is your option.

Gee wrote:Its seems some people experience a feeling of all knowing...as if they have all the knowledge they could ever want at their finger tips. If this is the case, then what exactly are we studying if we know everything?

In most every case of an NDEr claiming they have all knowledge, it is usually in the context of our universe, not the afterlife. However, I have read of a few examples of those who gain knowledge of the void, or rather the bulk (as understood by physicists) prior to the big bang. Anyway, this is a very good question, what do we continue to study? Well, since this universe is not all there is, it's possible we continue to study what is outside of our universe, the infinite, the potential to create, etc... I suggest you check out a book titled Journey of Souls for your answers. Although I can't claim this book as factual, it does come the closest to what I believe and makes an awful lot of sense, IMO.

fuzoid wrote:Science has more answers for most people than religion does. And why shouldn't it? But be carerful it does not become your dogma because then you would be less inclined to explore all options, which is really what science is all about! Also bear in mind that science and spiritual matters are not mutually exclusive nor are they incompatible. It is only ones dogma that makes them incompatible.

Gee wrote:I understand. After all, there are plenty of questions science can still no answer.

Correct. And it is questionable if science will ever be able to answer questions pertaining to God or an afterlife. So when a scientist or atheist claims there is no God, they are speaking from a position of ignorance based on their dogma. If God is outside the realm of science, then how can anyone make a factual claim one way or the other? It requires faith. However, science (quantum physics) does seem to point to something more than physical existence (e.g. extra dimensions, holographic universe, quantum entanglement, etc...). Taken with the anecdotal evidence of the NDEr, IMO, it does seem to paint a picture towards continued existence after death.

Not explaining myself very well here. It just seems too much like human, earthly proceedings.

Like doing a crime and going to jail. Do bad things in life and go to hell or come back as a slug.

I don't believe it.

Nor do I. The one thing that seems to be pervasive with the NDE is that the majority who experience it no longer believe in a devil, hell, punishment, eternal damnation, etc. This does not mean that there are not trapped spirits which are interpreted as demons. For example, I have read that so-called ghosts are trapped here by their own volition. Some do not realize they are dead and when a new family moves into their house, they react negatively. There is also anecdotal evidence for a place the Catholics call purgatory. Once again, those who are stuck there are because of their own doing. Some may have been very bad individuals who believe they are not worthy of God. Or perhaps they are so lost in their addiction of choice that they can't see beyond their self induced hell. But there is no anecdotal evidence of this realm being lorded over by some devil. Nor is there any evidence that it is a form of punishment (other than self induced).

fuzoid wrote:What do you mean by hell? Anyway, most who have an NDE will tell you they saw no evidence for a stereotypical hell, while others will tell you that hell is what we make it. Meaning it is not necessary to die to experience hell since you would be basically creating your own. For example, your fear of dying could be your hell.

Gee wrote:I don't believe in hell. However, I hear stories of eternal burning etc.

The stories are just that, stories. Search the majority of religion's concept of hell and you will soon discover that Christianity is unique in its view. Not even Judaism or Islam believe in a hell of fire where a soul is tormented for all eternity. In fact, Islam believes as the first Christians did, that all return to God, even the so-called rebellious angels. It's a concept known as Universal Salvation and was prevalent throughout early Christiandom. If I remember correctly, the Eastern Orthodox churches still believe in this concept, especially Russian Orthodoxy. But they do believe someone with negative karma, so to speak, does enter a realm eerily similar to the Catholic purgatory for purification before being allowed into heaven.

The stories of a hell of fire stem from a dump called Gehenna on the outside of ancient Jerusalem. This is where all the trash ended up, including the dead bodies of criminals.

If there is no hell and we all go to a heavenly like place, then what does it matter what bad things we do here if we all go to heaven anyway!?

Good question! And if all the literature I've read is true, it doesn't matter! However, deep inside every one of us is that little spark of God that tells us right from wrong. What one chooses to do with this knowledge is up to each individual. And since we are all from God, inherently our soul (for lack of a better term) wants to do what's right. But since there are so many strong temptations for someone to do wrong, our inherent goodness is outvoted. Personally, I believe this is because we forget who we really are. If a murderer knew that they were creating negative karma and would probably have to reincarnate to be murdered, do you believe they would murder? I don't think so.

Anyway, to answer your question, I honestly don't know. But if I was to take a guess, according to much of the literature I've read, every person alive today is exactly where they need to be for this particular life of theirs. Meaning everyone chose the life they are living for whatever the reason and what we view as bad may really have a purpose in the grand scheme of things. However, this is not an invitation to go out and do bad things to others because sooner or later it will come back to haunt you.

fuzoid wrote:Personally, I would say yes, the child would have some concept of God. Why? Because humans are born believers. For whatever the reason our brains are wired to believe in a god. Also, since I believe in reincarnation, it is my belief infants still retain a memory of the life between lives. It is only through conditioning do we eventually reject the supernatural.

BTW, I hope all you do is to keep wondering about this because such an experiment would be unethical and illegal.

Gee wrote:I personally think it is due to conditioning that we believe in God and thoughts of afterlife.

Actually, it is the opposite. Talk to a child from a family with no religious preference and they will gladly answer your questions in the affirmative about a god. Some will even go into very great detail! It is only through conditioning (or education) do they reject the concept of a god. However, rejecting the god concept is not as easy as you would believe because human brains are indeed hardwired to believe in God. You can read about it here:
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20126941.700-born-believers-how-your-brain-creates-god.html

I don't believe that dogs, cat, beetles and slugs know of any type of God, being or afterlife. Personally I think it would be the same of a child in the scenario I mentioned.

Well, we honestly don't know this to be true. There is some evidence that dogs and cats are psychic in that they can detect if their master is ill, in trouble, etc... So if I had to guess, I would believe they may have some concept of knowing which is inherent in their nature. Meaning they don't question it like humans do. And even if they did, how would we know? LOL!!! But when it comes to insect life, I'm inclined to agree. Insects serve a huge purpose in this life as pollinators or as food for higher species. So IMO insects are nothing more than automatons which serve a specific purpose. But is this belief due to human bias?

Anyway, we will have to agree to disagree on this subject because I believe humans are born with an inherent belief in God just as we are born with the ability to create and communicate through language.

And of course I would never imagine doing anything like that to a child! I wouldnt do it to a pet, nevermind a human!

I would never believe this of you. It was a rhetorical statement, nothing more.

fuzoid wrote:Well, this is not the standard definition for reincarnation. But your argument does make sense in a weird sort of way. Allow me to ask, what makes you conscious and the matter you would become one with not?

Gee wrote:Well, we are made out of the same matter and particles of everything else in this world. So maybe in some strange way we become part of somebody or something else once we pass.

Perhaps I wasn't clear the first time. So I'll ask the question differently. As you have pointed out, on the particle level, we are all made from the same stuff. So what makes you a living conscious being and a rock not?

I don't or have had any flash backs or thoughts of a previous life if that is what you mean?

No, this is not what I meant. I literally meant, what makes you alive?

Thanks for taking the time to reply and share you thoughts. I was actually waiting and hoping you would reply

You're welcome! And while I greatly appreciate your wanting my response, there are others here that have theories which are just as valid. My only word of caution is, if what someone is telling you contradicts science, then there is something wrong with the theory, not the science.

fuzoid

In my opinion (IMO), you are worrying yourself for nothing. If all the NDE accounts I've read are true, a belief in a god, or lack of, is not a requirement for the afterlife. Regardless what the Abrahamic religions claim, God is not some jealous and wrathful ego-maniac demanding adoration for all eternity.

Allow me to ask, what do you believe life is? Do you think it is nothing more than an emergent property of the brain due to neuronal activity? Or do you believe it is something more, like a type of energy? IMO, we are energy occupying a body for a purpose. As I've mentioned previously, if our universe is truly holographic in nature, which all the evidence seems to point towards, there is no way possible consciousness can be an emergent property of the brain since our bodies are also part of the holomovement. It is our consciousness which interprets the wave function as objective reality. And for whatever the reason, our consciousness seems to be playing a role in the holoverse. IMO, this implies purpose. While this doesn't necessarily mean there is an afterlife, if we are truly energy rather than physical matter, then continued existence seems to be implied.

To be honest, I really do not have much of an opinion of what life is and why we are here.

I have not read any literature on any theories either, so no sure on this one. The only 1% that thinks there could possibly be a god or some other type of being, is the fact that nobody really knows how we got here.

In regards to having purpose, I think people generally think they are more special than any other animal. Why should we have a purpose? What is it? I mean, there are billions or people on planet earth. I can't imagine what the purpose of us all being here could be.

I can't answer this. And I doubt very seriously if any sociologist ever conducted a statistical analysis regarding this topic. And a psychologist or psychiatrist would probably want to medicate anyone so fixated on death. Suffice to say, since all humans die, all humans think about their mortality. But I would have to believe those with more to lose think about it more often than your average person. But I have no evidence to support this belief.

My advice, stop thinking about death so much. Find a hobby or do something, anything, to keep your mind occupied. Being so fixated on death cannot be a healthy thing.

I'm going to try not think about it as much, I might not even think about it as much as I believe.

I guess I just wonder about things such as after life and other beings in general TBH.

IMO, there is absolutely nothing to fear about death, only how one dies. We would all prefer to slip away during our sleep. Who in their right mind would want to die a horrible pain filled death?

Although I doubt very seriously if I can convince you that there is an afterlife, perhaps the anecdotes of those who have experienced an NDE can? If you haven't already, check out this NDE site:
http://www.near-death.com

And if this isn't convincing enough for you, check out the site for the International Association for Near Death Studies at http://www.iands.org. This site is maintained by doctors and scientists who study the NDE and are convinced that the experience is legitimate and offers a glimpse into what awaits us when we die.

I think I would definitely choose to simply die in my sleep!

I'll check out the links.

You're right, probably nothing there that will 100% convince me...nothing will, but things definitely make me think and sway me towards the idea. Its not that I don't fully believe in another life, god, aliens and ghosts etc. I have a very open mind like I mentioned before, but would probably need to experience such things to fully believe in it.

There is research which supports negative thinking can have negative consequences. For example, a hypochondriac. Believing they are ill all the time can induce an illness. And if it is true that our consciousness is creating objective reality out of the holographic wave function, then it's quite possible negative thinking can influence how one interprets the wave function, changing it in the process. Think positive thoughts and this is what you will attract to yourself.

Definitely going to try and think more positive.

Yeah, that's what I get for assuming. LOL!!! Usually when someone says they want to experience children, they are female. To experience implies child birth. And while men also want children, it is probably due to their desire to pass their genetic material on.

Yes, in a way I guess your right. I do want to leave my own creation behind, but I want to also feel the love and bond that can only be found through a child. I feel as if I love my kids before they are even born.

In most every case of an NDEr claiming they have all knowledge, it is usually in the context of our universe, not the afterlife. However, I have read of a few examples of those who gain knowledge of the void, or rather the bulk (as understood by physicists) prior to the big bang. Anyway, this is a very good question, what do we continue to study? Well, since this universe is not all there is, it's possible we continue to study what is outside of our universe, the infinite, the potential to create, etc... I suggest you check out a book titled Journey of Souls for your answers. Although I can't claim this book as factual, it does come the closest to what I believe and makes an awful lot of sense, IMO.

I really can't grasp the idea of souls floating about researching

Good question! And if all the literature I've read is true, it doesn't matter! However, deep inside every one of us is that little spark of God that tells us right from wrong. What one chooses to do with this knowledge is up to each individual. And since we are all from God, inherently our soul (for lack of a better term) wants to do what's right. But since there are so many strong temptations for someone to do wrong, our inherent goodness is outvoted. Personally, I believe this is because we forget who we really are. If a murderer knew that they were creating negative karma and would probably have to reincarnate to be murdered, do you believe they would murder? I don't think so.

Anyway, to answer your question, I honestly don't know. But if I was to take a guess, according to much of the literature I've read, every person alive today is exactly where they need to be for this particular life of theirs. Meaning everyone chose the life they are living for whatever the reason and what we view as bad may really have a purpose in the grand scheme of things. However, this is not an invitation to go out and do bad things to others because sooner or later it will come back to haunt you.

I'm not sure if things are programmed into us in relation to right and wrong, or if it is society and they way we have been brought up that gives us our conscience

Actually, it is the opposite. Talk to a child from a family with no religious preference and they will gladly answer your questions in the affirmative about a god. Some will even go into very great detail! It is only through conditioning (or education) do they reject the concept of a god. However, rejecting the god concept is not as easy as you would believe because human brains are indeed hardwired to believe in God. You can read about it here:
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg2 ... s-god.html

You could be right.

I think some people believe that ancestor’s memories can be passed down the generations, so maybe things like the religion and the belief of God can too. However, nobody in this world can escape any knowing of God IMO.

Children are taught about god by their parents or in school. Maybe a friend mentioned God, maybe it was mentioned in a paper. This is why I am not convinced people are 'wired'. Saying that, I've not read your link yet.

Well, we honestly don't know this to be true. There is some evidence that dogs and cats are psychic in that they can detect if their master is ill, in trouble, etc... So if I had to guess, I would believe they may have some concept of knowing which is inherent in their nature. Meaning they don't question it like humans do. And even if they did, how would we know? LOL!!! But when it comes to insect life, I'm inclined to agree. Insects serve a huge purpose in this life as pollinators or as food for higher species. So IMO insects are nothing more than automatons which serve a specific purpose. But is this belief due to human bias?

Anyway, we will have to agree to disagree on this subject because I believe humans are born with an inherent belief in God just as we are born with the ability to create and communicate through language.

There is actually an insect that hibernates (if this is the correct term for insects!?) for literally 18 years (or something ridiculous). Comes out to breed and then literally dies within a day. Their bodies decompose and fertilise the soil..all part of the chain in the forests.

Seems strange...

would never believe this of you. It was a rhetorical statement, nothing more.

Cool.

Perhaps I wasn't clear the first time. So I'll ask the question differently. As you have pointed out, on the particle level, we are all made from the same stuff. So what makes you a living conscious being and a rock not?

Well, I'm no scientist and never went through university so it’s a tricky one to give an answer on.

Cells have constantly developed, over time we could have evolved...for whatever reason we developed a control centre..the brain. This is the only explanation I have, as it is what I think with after all!

No, this is not what I meant. I literally meant, what makes you alive?

I don't know.

Give me your theory

Gee wrote:To be honest, I really do not have much of an opinion of what life is and why we are here.

Well, with your preoccupation with death I just assumed you might have some sort of an opinion.

I have not read any literature on any theories either, so no sure on this one. The only 1% that thinks there could possibly be a god or some other type of being, is the fact that nobody really knows how we got here.

If it were me, I would bump that percentage up to around 75% (or higher). But you're right, no one knows for sure how we got here. And while evolution offers a very valid explanation to how life evolves, it still doesn't explain what life is!

In regards to having purpose, I think people generally think they are more special than any other animal. Why should we have a purpose? What is it? I mean, there are billions or people on planet earth. I can't imagine what the purpose of us all being here could be.

My reference to purpose has nothing to do with an ego-centric view of humanity. It is entirely physics related. Once again, if our universe is holographic in nature, then something or someone is projecting the hologram which our consciousness decodes into objective reality. The fact that we are conscious beings living in a holographic universe does seem to imply purpose. Not familiar with the theory? Allow me to elaborate.

A typical hologram is created through the reflection of laser light which creates an interference pattern that appears nonsensical when viewed with the naked eye. However, shine a beam of laser light onto it and you will get a complete 3D image of whatever object you captured on the holographic plate. Another quirk of holograms is that you can capture more than one image on a single holographic plate (think extra dimensions here). Just change the angle of the recording medium and voila! And while I do not not know the maximum number of images that can be captured on a single holographic plate, suffice to say it is more than 2. And what's even quirkier, smash the holographic plate into tiny pieces and you will still retain the full 3D image of the recorded object in each tiny piece. In other words, the part contains the whole (think oneness here).

Since our universe consists of the wave function which is nothing more than information (the same as the interferrence patterns on your holographic plate) and observation is required to decode the information into objective reality, the only logical conclusion is that we are really nothing more than consciousness (spirit?) independent of a body (or brain). How so? Since the entire universe really exists as a wave function, this would have to include your body as well. And if your body is nothing more than illusion, then what is decoding the information?

You're probably thinking there must be something wrong with this theory. If so, you would be wrong. The first empirical evidence which supports the theory was recently discovered through the GEO600 Gravity Wave Detection experiment. The physicists conducting the experiment kept getting background noise that they couldn't explain nor rule out. American physicist, Craig Hogan, worked out that the GEO600 experiment would experience specific background noise if the universe was holographic in nature. So he requested copies of the experiment and the noise matched his equations exactly! And here's the kicker, the experiment is repeatable! One of the requirements of the Scientific Method. Further testing will be conducted with more sensitive measuring equipment to confirm the findings. But so far, it does in fact appear that we are living in a universe of illusion and it is our participation in this illusion that creates our objective reality! To quote Craig Hogan, "It appears our universe is being projected from the 2D event horizon of our universe." So the question becomes, who or what is doing the projecting and for what PURPOSE?

I guess I just wonder about things such as after life and other beings in general TBH.

We all do! It's just a fact of our mortality.

I'll check out the links.

Cool! They will probably answer all your questions.... including ones you probably haven't even thought of yet!

You're right, probably nothing there that will 100% convince me...nothing will, but things definitely make me think and sway me towards the idea. Its not that I don't fully believe in another life, god, aliens and ghosts etc. I have a very open mind like I mentioned before, but would probably need to experience such things to fully believe in it.

Well, just so you understand my position, I am not trying to convince you. All I'm doing is answering your questions as best as I can so you can make an informed decision one way or the other. As to experiencing it first before believing, I can relate to this. As I've mentioned in this forum, I am alive today because of a spiritual experience I had. And although I actually did experience it, my rational side still has a hard time accepting it. But since I'm alive today, I have no choice. Rational mind be damned.

Definitely going to try and think more positive.

Definitely a wise choice. Check out the research of Dr. Larry Dossey to see what I mean.

Yes, in a way I guess your right. I do want to leave my own creation behind, but I want to also feel the love and bond that can only be found through a child. I feel as if I love my kids before they are even born.

Then it sounds like you're going to be a wonderful father. Your future children will be lucky to have a father such as yourself.

I really can't grasp the idea of souls floating about researching

No problem, most can't. So instead of picturing all these souls floating around with harps and wings at the God Academy, try thinking of it in the context of a holographic universe as presented above. Because if true (and the evidence is mounting), then that's exactly what we really are!

I'm not sure if things are programmed into us in relation to right and wrong, or if it is society and they way we have been brought up that gives us our conscience

While I'm sure some of our morals do come from our parents and/or society, I am 100% convinced we are born already knowing right from wrong. For example, watch infants closely and you'll discover that if they take a toy from another, or hit another, they will usually look around to see if they were caught. So something must be going on inside those little brains which tells them stealing and hitting is wrong.

You could be right.

I think some people believe that ancestor’s memories can be passed down the generations, so maybe things like the religion and the belief of God can too. However, nobody in this world can escape any knowing of God IMO.

While I cannot disprove the notion of inherited memories, I have a hard time with this concept. In any event, this is not what the research I presented claims. It literally states that there is an area within the human brain that is hardwired to believe in God. This does not mean that everyone should believe just because their brains are wired for it. But it does mean that those that do believe can very easily believe with little or no evidence to support their belief. And if you think about it, this sure does explain an awful lot of what most of us view as illogical.

Children are taught about god by their parents or in school. Maybe a friend mentioned God, maybe it was mentioned in a paper. This is why I am not convinced people are 'wired'. Saying that, I've not read your link yet.

I know a number of agnostic or non-religious parents who do not teach their children about God. I even know a few that will not because their child isn't old enough to decide for themself (just as it should be done). And ironically if you speak with these children, they will indeed talk to you about God at great lengths and will go into detail, even describing what they believe God looks like! The majority of children in America go to public school where religion is not allowed to be taught, as it should be.

Since you are interested, I highly recommend you check out the link I provided to the New Scientist article. Because it is a real eye opener.

There is actually an insect that hibernates (if this is the correct term for insects!?) for literally 18 years (or something ridiculous). Comes out to breed and then literally dies within a day. Their bodies decompose and fertilise the soil..all part of the chain in the forests.

Seems strange...

Strange.... but true.

fuzoid wrote:Perhaps I wasn't clear the first time. So I'll ask the question differently. As you have pointed out, on the particle level, we are all made from the same stuff. So what makes you a living conscious being and a rock not?

Gee wrote:Well, I'm no scientist and never went through university so it’s a tricky one to give an answer on.

Neither am I and nor have I, but I'm well read. Anyway, I don't need a degree to answer this question. And if you think about it, the two solutions I'm going to provide are the only logical ones that I can think of. The question was, what makes you alive and a rock not? Well, either [ALL] life is infused with some type of life force that is independent of our universe, or the universe is alive and seriously schizophrenic. Bear in mind that this is not necessarily an "either or" answer because there are many cultures that do believe the universe is indeed alive!

Cells have constantly developed, over time we could have evolved...for whatever reason we developed a control centre..the brain. This is the only explanation I have, as it is what I think with after all!

This goes back to consciousness being an emergent property of the brain. However, as explained above, if our universe really is holographic in nature, then the reverse has to be true. Pretty freaky stuff, huh?

fuzoid wrote:No, this is not what I meant. I literally meant, what makes you alive?

Gee wrote:I don't know.

Give me your theory

My theory is as explained above, we are disembodied consciousness living a life of illusion in a holographic universe.

fuzoid
http://www.live365.com/stations/

Gee wrote:Children are taught about god by their parents or in school. Maybe a friend mentioned God, maybe it was mentioned in a paper. This is why I am not convinced people are 'wired'. Saying that, I've not read your link yet.

fuzoid wrote:I know a number of agnostic or non-religious parents who do not teach their children about God. I even know a few that will not because their child isn't old enough to decide for themself (just as it should be done). And ironically if you speak with these children, they will indeed talk to you about God at great lengths and will go into detail, even describing what they believe God looks like! The majority of children in America go to public school where religion is not allowed to be taught, as it should be.

One other thing I forgot to mention regarding children, check out the NDE research of pediatrician Dr. Melvin Morse. More specifically his book Closer To The Light. He actually touches on the subject of whether or not an indoctrination into religion influences the experience. And for the most part, they do not. But there is one case where a little girl described sitting on the lap of Jesus. However, this in no way lessens the legitimacy of the experience as you will discover if you read the book. And it was actually this case that launched his research in to the NDE! A very informative book that is free from most of the trappings of cultural influence.

fuzoid
http://www.live365.com/stations/fuzoid

Gee wrote:I have always wondered about death and I am scared of it. Sometimes I lie in bed by myself and really think about dying and the thought of never coming back terrifies me.

I hear you on that one. I think most of us at some point think about death whilst lying in bed. Used to scare me too. The thought of nothingness and not existing. I'm not religious myself, but once you contemplate death, it's easy to see why so many find comfort in religion and it's promise of an after life.

Though now death doesn't scare me at all (although as has already been mentioned... ways of HOW I could die DOES scare me!)

But the way I look at it, is, if there's an afterlife or reincarnation or whatever, then great.... but if there isn't, we won't know anything about it anyway, so don't worry......... the problem is, it's just impossible to contemplate not existing, nothingness, no self awareness, to not exist on any plain of consciousness. It's like trying to imagine how the universe began (for non religious people) the human mind just can't get it's head around it... and even if a plausible theory did come to mind, there would be no real way of proving it.

Guess we'll find out when we die... That's at least one reason to look forward to death about lol

Hi from devil666,

I base all my mail on facts and my own personal experience. My user name is just a gag I don't mean anyone harm by it. I sometimes use Mario or may change it to my surname which means star or man on a hill. I am not worried about revealing my id and everything. I comment on facts that have happened except when I write a story titled "is this the future has happened to me." I never do it for profit and have far more ability then guys on TV who give it a bad name. As for your thoughts, I can tell you hell must exist and it's a long way down into the blackness we fall into. I cannot see beyond this, as is when we go into the light, I loose sight as we move on. You can believe your own thoughts on this, I can tell you the lost souls around are very real. Some stories you read in religious books are right on the button but not all as they are written by man. I like to base everything on the true facts as I see it and my own encounters of over 55 years. I hope to write a book soon and to try and prove my encounters are very real. Talk to you soon.