I believe in life after death. I also believe in reincarnation. Have you ever seen or heard of John Edwards, the famous medium? He has a program on WE T.V. Crossing Over or some such title. My brother gave me the money for a ticket to see him when he came to my area. Since it is in Iowa, John Edwards had never been here. I lived a few hours away from Des Moines where the program took place. As always it was a sell out, but because of the smaller space it was more like a gallery than the 1,000 to 2,000 that come to see him in large auditoriums. I liked that as there were only 300 people and, even though the tickets were higher, it was worth it. We were being televised and John was reading people directly behind me. He was right on with the family and friends who have crossed over and relaying messages to them. Then he looked in my direction while this crowd was behind me and said "I don't know if I have this name quite right, but it sounds like Elmer" He had this smirk on his face and the crowd laughed because the name Elmer is just funny in itself! I just sat there stunned as my ex father in law's name was Elmer. The funny thing was I actually talked to Elmer a few days before going to the program, and I asked that if he had a message for my boys, to please come through. A little background, my ex and I didn't leave on the best of terms and I was left to raise the boys. There was much animosity between us, my ex never came around, even though I was the victim however, after a length of time I just wanted him to be close to his sons and his grandchildren. Anyway, I just sat there, stunned and afraid, as usual, that I may be interfering with the group he had been reading and they would be upset if I butted in. Well, Elmer didn't go away, as Edwards then said "I have a strong 4th of July connection from this person." Once again I said to the lady next to me, "That was my ex husband's birthday!" She said, raise your hand, it's obviously you who is suppose to be read" The group in back just looked at each other and, again, not wanting to have my mug on television, I just ignored it. The last thing he said was "There is also a medical connection to this person." My ex husband is a Periodontal Surgeon." I'm still kicking myself because I never stood up and said "I think your trying to get through to me"! Finally, one of the people directly in back said she had a niece in the medical field and Edwards went on from there. If you ever watched him or seen him in person, you would definitely believe in the afterlife. How sad to think this is all there is to life. That's the atheist view. I think they will be in for a big surprise when it is their time to go.
Years ago I saw a program, 20/20 or one of those types. A man and his wife were in Europe on vacation. He was an atheist and had nothing to do with a belief in God. He became very ill and was taken to the hospital where he had a NE. He described how absolutely horrific it was and how frightened he became. As his NE became more and more frightening he started to pray, for the first time since he was a child, for God to save him from the depths of Hell. As he prayed he was able to view himself as a small child in church singing "Jesus Loves Me," the more he prayed the lighter her felt and the happier he became until he came back into his body and woke up. He lived, but the experience changed his life completely. He became a minister. It was very interesting. I'm sure there are always those who love to poke fun at feelings people have over NDE and I'm absolutely positive this post will receive a lot of nasty responses, but that's OK. Those people that want to believe life now is all we have are welcomed to their belief. My mother died in 2007, my dad just last Sept., my brother 10 years ago and my niece died Feb. 13th from breast cancer. Also, my beloved Collie died a day after his 12th birthday and I do hope I will see them again. That's the joy I have to look forward too one day.
Anyway, thanks for reading my response and, as I said, everyone is welcomed to their own beliefs as long as it doesn't hurt another person.

k9maiden wrote:I believe in life after death. I also believe in reincarnation.

You're in good company.

Have you ever seen or heard of John Edwards, the famous medium? He has a program on WE T.V. Crossing Over or some such title. My brother gave me the money for a ticket to see him when he came to my area. Since it is in Iowa, John Edwards had never been here. I lived a few hours away from Des Moines where the program took place. As always it was a sell out, but because of the smaller space it was more like a gallery than the 1,000 to 2,000 that come to see him in large auditoriums. I liked that as there were only 300 people and, even though the tickets were higher, it was worth it. We were being televised and John was reading people directly behind me. He was right on with the family and friends who have crossed over and relaying messages to them. Then he looked in my direction while this crowd was behind me and said "I don't know if I have this name quite right, but it sounds like Elmer" He had this smirk on his face and the crowd laughed because the name Elmer is just funny in itself! I just sat there stunned as my ex father in law's name was Elmer. The funny thing was I actually talked to Elmer a few days before going to the program, and I asked that if he had a message for my boys, to please come through. A little background, my ex and I didn't leave on the best of terms and I was left to raise the boys. There was much animosity between us, my ex never came around, even though I was the victim however, after a length of time I just wanted him to be close to his sons and his grandchildren. Anyway, I just sat there, stunned and afraid, as usual, that I may be interfering with the group he had been reading and they would be upset if I butted in. Well, Elmer didn't go away, as Edwards then said "I have a strong 4th of July connection from this person." Once again I said to the lady next to me, "That was my ex husband's birthday!" She said, raise your hand, it's obviously you who is suppose to be read" The group in back just looked at each other and, again, not wanting to have my mug on television, I just ignored it. The last thing he said was "There is also a medical connection to this person." My ex husband is a Periodontal Surgeon." I'm still kicking myself because I never stood up and said "I think your trying to get through to me"! Finally, one of the people directly in back said she had a niece in the medical field and Edwards went on from there. If you ever watched him or seen him in person, you would definitely believe in the afterlife. How sad to think this is all there is to life. That's the atheist view. I think they will be in for a big surprise when it is their time to go.

While I would like to believe John Edwards is legit, during many of the programs I've seen of him, he does tend to fish, so to speak. But I have also seen many times when he was direct and to the point. So I have to conclude that he has a gift that he's not too sure of at times. A good example of this is your story above. And yeah, I do believe you missed out on a rare experience.

Years ago I saw a program, 20/20 or one of those types. A man and his wife were in Europe on vacation. He was an atheist and had nothing to do with a belief in God. He became very ill and was taken to the hospital where he had a NE. He described how absolutely horrific it was and how frightened he became. As his NE became more and more frightening he started to pray, for the first time since he was a child, for God to save him from the depths of Hell. As he prayed he was able to view himself as a small child in church singing "Jesus Loves Me," the more he prayed the lighter her felt and the happier he became until he came back into his body and woke up. He lived, but the experience changed his life completely. He became a minister. It was very interesting.

I'm familiar with this account. If I remember correctly, his name is Rev. Howard Storm. I'll have to re-read his account to verify this. Anyway, as I remember it, he was enticed to hell by what he eventually identified as demons. He claimed they were clawing and scratching at him trying to drag him deeper into hell. It was only after he prayed to God to save him was he released. Negative NDEs such as this one are rare and are usually due to the individuals expectations. Perhaps he did something in his life that he thought justified going to hell?

I'm sure there are always those who love to poke fun at feelings people have over NDE and I'm absolutely positive this post will receive a lot of nasty responses, but that's OK. Those people that want to believe life now is all we have are welcomed to their belief. My mother died in 2007, my dad just last Sept., my brother 10 years ago and my niece died Feb. 13th from breast cancer. Also, my beloved Collie died a day after his 12th birthday and I do hope I will see them again. That's the joy I have to look forward too one day.

I don't think you have to worry about nasty responses. It appears not that many people are interested in this topic. Why? I have no clue. To me, this is more fascinating and enlightening than all the negativity in the 2012 forum. It amazes me that people who are so interested in their possible demise have no desire to learn what may be ahead of them after they bite the big one.

As to seeing your loved ones once again, of this I have no doubt. Including your beloved Collie. And I'm sure it will be one heck of a joyous reunion.

Anyway, thanks for reading my response and, as I said, everyone is welcomed to their own beliefs as long as it doesn't hurt another person.

Amen to that!

fuzoid
http://www.live365.com/stations/fuzoid

Forgive me for being dispassionate but your father simply had a rush of endorphins as his body tried to brain alive.. its a survival reflex. For those 2 minutes all the had were his memories with no perception of reality. It was a rush of endorphins and fond memories.. not heaven or an afterlife.

Because we are sentient, imaginative beings its hard for us to cope with the fact that we are also just animals. Our ability to use language allows us create (and eternally expound upon) the comforting myth that there is life after death, a life before birth, and indeed a cycle of life and death to and from a God in a heavenly realm. We hold on tight to this myth for many reasons but when it comes down to it, life is painful and tragic. No one wants to face the fact that their deceased loved one (be it their child or their mother or father who have all be so central to our existence) simply no longer exists. They are dead. They were an intelligent animal who are the sum of their instincts, their experiences, their loves, their pains, all shaped by the years of their some of which they spent with you. They are dead now. ALL that they were is lost like a drop or water in the ocean.

Also, not only does your loved one no longer exist but every second you live after their death takes you further and further from the happy time in your life when you had them and they had you. Its deeply sad so we fool ourselves into believing that our religion will take care of them.

Of course there is no life after death. Is there life after death for ants and aardvarks? Your religion will tell you no because its human-centered and your God has broken down the food chain with his beloved humanity at the top. Humanity alone earns the right to have a whole section of the universe reserved for them. Heaven is reserved for their reward for being a believer and hell for those who don't think like you.

What about your favorite cat? Is there a heaven for them too? Then you are told that because you loved them they will go to heaven with you.

Ah, so if you love something and it dies it will live on in an afterlife?

Sorry, heaven and afterlife are simply vane mythologies. Just because you believe in your religion or love your cat enough.. doesn't make afterlife true. The universe is not about you, about your religion, or about your need to feel secure about what happens to you after you die. You will be dust.

The best you can hope for is to be remembered by those who love you and to have made a difference in people's lives. That is your reward.

You find a very, very, very detailed progress of after death in the holy Qoran, from the second you die until the day of judgment.

Good luck.

LW wrote:Forgive me for being dispassionate but your father simply had a rush of endorphins as his body tried to brain alive.. its a survival reflex. For those 2 minutes all the had were his memories with no perception of reality. It was a rush of endorphins and fond memories.. not heaven or an afterlife.

And your evidence is? The NDE has been seriously studied now since the 1970's and the medical community still has no idea what causes them. This is pretty absolute statement when even the professionals claim they have no clue. Not to mention, you are ignoring all the medical, circumstantial and anecdotal evidence. Please support your opinion.

Because we are sentient, imaginative beings its hard for us to cope with the fact that we are also just animals. Our ability to use language allows us create (and eternally expound upon) the comforting myth that there is life after death, a life before birth, and indeed a cycle of life and death to and from a God in a heavenly realm.

Well, since this is an area that is outside of the realm of science, I'm curious to know what you are basing your opinion on? After all, if you have no empirical evidence to offer to support your position, it is nothing more than opinion. Please support it.

We hold on tight to this myth for many reasons but when it comes down to it, life is painful and tragic. No one wants to face the fact that their deceased loved one (be it their child or their mother or father who have all be so central to our existence) simply no longer exists. They are dead. They were an intelligent animal who are the sum of their instincts, their experiences, their loves, their pains, all shaped by the years of their some of which they spent with you. They are dead now.

While we know the body is dead, what is your evidence the life energy does not exist in another dimension (heaven?)? I say the evidence for a holographic universe allows for this possibility. What's your evidence?

ALL that they were is lost like a drop or water in the ocean.

I find it ironic that you use the same exact analogy that spiritualists use to describe our oneness with God, each other, and all of creation.

Also, not only does your loved one no longer exist but every second you live after their death takes you further and further from the happy time in your life when you had them and they had you. Its deeply sad so we fool ourselves into believing that our religion will take care of them.

I have a couple of questions:

1) Why do you find it necessary to remove an individuals hope that their loved ones have moved on to a much better existence? In my opinion you are trying to convince yourself more than you are others. Deny it all you want but I believe there is a nagging belief in the back of your mind that you are tying to rid yourself of.

2) Please explain what possible evolutionary benefit there is to ones survival to create a spiritual illusion at the moment of death? And not just any type of illusion, but one that is shared by most everyone who experiences an NDE! You would believe if the experience is created by the last gasp of a dying brain that it would be culturally influenced. It's not!

Of course there is no life after death. Is there life after death for ants and aardvarks?

Please support your opinion with empirical evidence. I, on the other hand, can support my belief with empirical evidence. Can you make the same claim? No! And why wouldn't there be an after life for ants and aardvarks? If our life force is energy, then the energy of an ant or aardvark would survive as well. The same holds true for ALL life, in my opinion.

Your religion will tell you no because its human-centered and your God has broken down the food chain with his beloved humanity at the top. Humanity alone earns the right to have a whole section of the universe reserved for them. Heaven is reserved for their reward for being a believer and hell for those who don't think like you.

Where did you get such belief? There was nothing in her post that alluded to any religion that I'm aware of. So how can you make such a claim? Now, if you were to make a generic statement about the Abrahamic religions, you would have a point. But you didn't. You stated her religion.....ad nauseum.

I'm curious, what is your agenda? Obviously you have one otherwise you would have responded specifically to her post. Instead you make inaccurate claims in an attempt to make your point. Your response, sir/madam, is disingenuous at best.

What about your favorite cat? Is there a heaven for them too? Then you are told that because you loved them they will go to heaven with you.

Sure! Why the heck not? See above.

Ah, so if you love something and it dies it will live on in an afterlife?

Now you are just being sarcastic. With this one simple statement you have revealed your true colors You have no desire to impart truth as you understand it. Your only intention is to ridicule. You have a lot to learn.

Sorry, heaven and afterlife are simply vane mythologies. Just because you believe in your religion or love your cat enough.. doesn't make afterlife true. The universe is not about you, about your religion, or about your need to feel secure about what happens to you after you die. You will be dust.

Once again I ask you to support your opinion with empirical evidence.

The best you can hope for is to be remembered by those who love you and to have made a difference in people's lives. That is your reward.

I say you're wrong. Now, prove me wrong.

fuzoid
http://www.live365.com/stations/fuzoid

Cherreh wrote:You find a very, very, very detailed progress of after death in the holy Qoran, from the second you die until the day of judgment.

Good luck.

You can find a very detailed description in the Egyptian Book of the Dead as well. Since I'm not familiar with the description in the Quran, I can't say if they agree. Anyway, what's your point? Are you claiming the Quran as evidence? Are you claiming Islam is the only path to God? Are you familiar with the NDE? If so, what's your take on it? If Muslim, what do you think about the religious who experience an NDE only to return as non-religious, but with a very profound belief and understanding of God? Although I assume it was directed at LW, why do you say good luck?

I know, I know, soooo many questions!

fuzoid
http://www.live365.com/stations/fuzoid

Greetings All;
I find this topic interesting also.

Everyone wants proof of these various experiences, when actually the proof is within us all, all we need is the patience and discipline to develop our "awareness" of these experiences. Everyone has these experiences at various stages of their lives, not everyone is ready to accept them.

May I suggest, instead of seeking proof from someone else, focus on the proof within yourself, after all seeking it from someone else is only going to reveal the experiences they have earned.

I sincerely hope this helps, I mean no sarcasm in any way.

fuzoid wrote:

LW wrote:Forgive me for being dispassionate but your father simply had a rush of endorphins as his body tried to brain alive.. its a survival reflex. For those 2 minutes all the had were his memories with no perception of reality. It was a rush of endorphins and fond memories.. not heaven or an afterlife.

And your evidence is? The NDE has been seriously studied now since the 1970's and the medical community still has no idea what causes them. This is pretty absolute statement when even the professionals claim they have no clue. Not to mention, you are ignoring all the medical, circumstantial and anecdotal evidence. Please support your opinion.

Because we are sentient, imaginative beings its hard for us to cope with the fact that we are also just animals. Our ability to use language allows us create (and eternally expound upon) the comforting myth that there is life after death, a life before birth, and indeed a cycle of life and death to and from a God in a heavenly realm.

Well, since this is an area that is outside of the realm of science, I'm curious to know what you are basing your opinion on? After all, if you have no empirical evidence to offer to support your position, it is nothing more than opinion. Please support it.

We hold on tight to this myth for many reasons but when it comes down to it, life is painful and tragic. No one wants to face the fact that their deceased loved one (be it their child or their mother or father who have all be so central to our existence) simply no longer exists. They are dead. They were an intelligent animal who are the sum of their instincts, their experiences, their loves, their pains, all shaped by the years of their some of which they spent with you. They are dead now.

While we know the body is dead, what is your evidence the life energy does not exist in another dimension (heaven?)? I say the evidence for a holographic universe allows for this possibility. What's your evidence?

ALL that they were is lost like a drop or water in the ocean.

I find it ironic that you use the same exact analogy that spiritualists use to describe our oneness with God, each other, and all of creation.

Also, not only does your loved one no longer exist but every second you live after their death takes you further and further from the happy time in your life when you had them and they had you. Its deeply sad so we fool ourselves into believing that our religion will take care of them.

I have a couple of questions:

1) Why do you find it necessary to remove an individuals hope that their loved ones have moved on to a much better existence? In my opinion you are trying to convince yourself more than you are others. Deny it all you want but I believe there is a nagging belief in the back of your mind that you are tying to rid yourself of.

2) Please explain what possible evolutionary benefit there is to ones survival to create a spiritual illusion at the moment of death? And not just any type of illusion, but one that is shared by most everyone who experiences an NDE! You would believe if the experience is created by the last gasp of a dying brain that it would be culturally influenced. It's not!

Of course there is no life after death. Is there life after death for ants and aardvarks?

Please support your opinion with empirical evidence. I, on the other hand, can support my belief with empirical evidence. Can you make the same claim? No! And why wouldn't there be an after life for ants and aardvarks? If our life force is energy, then the energy of an ant or aardvark would survive as well. The same holds true for ALL life, in my opinion.

Your religion will tell you no because its human-centered and your God has broken down the food chain with his beloved humanity at the top. Humanity alone earns the right to have a whole section of the universe reserved for them. Heaven is reserved for their reward for being a believer and hell for those who don't think like you.

Where did you get such belief? There was nothing in her post that alluded to any religion that I'm aware of. So how can you make such a claim? Now, if you were to make a generic statement about the Abrahamic religions, you would have a point. But you didn't. You stated her religion.....ad nauseum.

I'm curious, what is your agenda? Obviously you have one otherwise you would have responded specifically to her post. Instead you make inaccurate claims in an attempt to make your point. Your response, sir/madam, is disingenuous at best.

What about your favorite cat? Is there a heaven for them too? Then you are told that because you loved them they will go to heaven with you.

Sure! Why the heck not? See above.

Ah, so if you love something and it dies it will live on in an afterlife?

Now you are just being sarcastic. With this one simple statement you have revealed your true colors You have no desire to impart truth as you understand it. Your only intention is to ridicule. You have a lot to learn.

Sorry, heaven and afterlife are simply vane mythologies. Just because you believe in your religion or love your cat enough.. doesn't make afterlife true. The universe is not about you, about your religion, or about your need to feel secure about what happens to you after you die. You will be dust.

Once again I ask you to support your opinion with empirical evidence.

The best you can hope for is to be remembered by those who love you and to have made a difference in people's lives. That is your reward.

I say you're wrong. Now, prove me wrong.

fuzoid
http://www.live365.com/stations/fuzoid

I'm sorry to make this a long post by quoting you but I desperately needed to tell you that there's nothing you stated above that I could have said better! well done..

Shame that some people feel the need to force their disbelieve on believers in an almost condicending (spelling? i'm not english) way. They don't believe but yet find it interesting enough to go on websites/forums to state how much they think it's nonsense... to me that's the same as having diner in an Italian restaurant when you don't like italian food just so you can complain about the menu... makes no sense at all..

Guest wrote:I'm sorry to make this a long post by quoting you but I desperately needed to tell you that there's nothing you stated above that I could have said better! well done..

Shame that some people feel the need to force their disbelieve on believers in an almost condicending (spelling? i'm not english) way. They don't believe but yet find it interesting enough to go on websites/forums to state how much they think it's nonsense... to me that's the same as having diner in an Italian restaurant when you don't like italian food just so you can complain about the menu... makes no sense at all..

Thanks! And I completely agree. The problem with individuals such as these are that they are just as steeped in their dogma as a devout religious person. Neither side wants to admit they could be wrong and refuse to research into anything other than their own dogma. They speak through ignorance of their own making. Fortunately there are some who are willing to review the data. Although it still may not convince them, at least they will have a better understanding and hopefully treat the subject with more respect. Especially those of the scientific minded. Science works by reviewing all the evidence, not just one side of it.

fuzoid
http://www.live365.com/stations/fuzoid

To get a better perspective on this topic, it is necessary to understand a few principles.

1. We are all "soul", in a physical body of some sort.
2. Consciousness is the level of awareness that soul operates from.

I'm not wanting to get too deep due to time issues, but with these two principles we need to understand that as Soul we exists on many levels ( planes,heavens ....etc) at the same time. Thus when we sleep, soul is free to move about freely to the levels or planes it has earned thru spiritual evolution.When we dream, this is nothing more then shifting of conscience from one level to another.

So its obvious that not all souls are at the same level of conscience, thus explaining the various degrees of perceptions we all have. To find out what level you operate at is a simple matter of spiritual exercise by laying still, stop all thoughts from coming in or out of your mind, totally relax while maintaining awareness, after getting to this state you should see a light, focus on this light until it completely surrounds you, some people claim to hear various sounds which indicates the level their awareness is in.

So as we have compassion for what we consider lower entities ( insects,...etc) which are soul, should we not consider have the same compassion for those of us with less awareness?

Just a thought for now.

Hope this helps someone, it has me.

Qrusty