Max wrote:I have died twice in one day, before the EMT's arrived and again on the table in the hospital. I had no visions of either heaven or hell. It was more like a dream formed around what the people who were working on me were saying, My ears heard and my brain filled in the blanks of what it heard.

Although I'm not doubting your story, I need to ask, by whose criteria were you determined to have died? If it was before the EMT's arrived, then there were no measurements of your vital functions taken at that time. And in the hospital, if it was just a flat line, this is not an indication of clinical death. Clinically dead means there is absolutely no brain wave activity. Since you heard what was going on around you and your brain filled in the blanks, then this is not clinical death. So you did not experience an NDE. But I find your story interesting just the same. Can you relate this dream your brain formed? Thanks!

fuzoid
http://www.live365.com/stations/fuzoid

Guest wrote::D Hi from own near death at 8 years old this is very real, this is my story .....going in for minor op seen through a young boys eyes it begins with me leaving the chest can see surgeon operating others watching mainly students.

I need to ask. Were you declared clinically dead during the procedure or was this more like an OBE?

I have no interest in my body laying there,

Almost everyone who claims to have seen their body during an NDE states that their body held no interest for them. The majority viewed their body as nothing more than a vehicle for the soul and felt no emotional attachments to it at all.

rise up above them all inside a small orb, colour is less defined more like black and white can't hear sounds see everything like looking through telescope aware my orb beating like heart beat every time changing from white light to black light and back again what's strange can't feel pain hot or cold how cools that?

Rising in an orb is a new one for me. So is seeing less color.

Start moving to other room time seems to stand still have to turn myself right round see behind me,

Moving to other rooms, or locations, is prevalent throughout the NDE literature. The fact that individuals can accurately describe conversations and events that are miles from where their body lies is pretty convincing anecdotal evidence. Time running at a different rate or stopping entirely is also a common theme.

passing into roof space see spider nursing her eggs looks massive but it's me that's minute she is aware of me reacting with her legs.

Now that would have freaked me out! To begin with, spiders give me the heebie jeebies. So a huge one would have caused me to have a heart attack if I wasn't already dead. It actually reacted to your presence? I've heard of animals reacting to the presence of someone during an NDE but I never read a case of an arachnid or insect doing the same...until now. Definitely one for the records.

I become aware something watching me and start to panic trying to hide anywhere at this point feel very weak, being pulled back to my body entering back via my chest in a bright light my nerve fibers all lit up then blackness. I wake up all excited tell doctors every detail can still see shock on everyone's faces, questioned me for hours even coming to our house. Will add to this later as getting short on time may your god go with you.

It's possible your fear of being watched caused your return to your body. I wonder how much deeper into the experience you would have gone had you met with whoever was watching you?

Looking forward to reading more of your experience.

fuzoid
http://www.live365.com/stations/fuzoid

ljc wrote:When I turned to Jesus Christ and was Born Again the demons took me to hell five times in visions will I slept, but I came out and down the tubes. I fell back to hell again and again. Today demons are just pests, Jesus Holy Spirit grabs the demons arms and legs and carts it off to the pit. Believe in that Demons, Devils, wicked angels deceive the world.

With all due respect, you experienced a dream, not an NDE. And vivid dreams about ones new found faith are common. I experienced them as well. Fortunately, I recognized them as dreams. And they were not of demons or hell (neither of which exist). It's all about ones mindset. If your focus of attention is on eternal damnation, then that will be your bane. Change the way you look at Jesus' message and focus more on the love, acceptance, and understanding, and your demons will go away.

Hi it's me again. I just thought I would mention the spider thing again. I was small as one of her eggs but emitted light in the dark probably reacted to this, and I think you're right about being scared back to my body. That's just how I felt as for the orb that is very real 100 percent. We all end up that way when leaving body. When I came back I had abilities that would make your hair curl but that's another story talk to you soon.

devil666 wrote::D Hi it's me again. I just thought I would mention the spider thing again. I was small as one of her eggs but emitted light in the dark probably reacted to this,...

You emitted light? This is definitely not like any NDE or OBE that I've ever read about.

...and I think you're right about being scared back to my body.

Based on your description of events, it makes sense to me. Especially considering you were only 8 years old at the time.

That's just how I felt as for the orb that is very real 100 percent. We all end up that way when leaving body.

Please don't take this the wrong way but I have a hard time accepting we all end up as orbs when we leave the body. I've had plenty of conversations with those who believed they were capturing spiritual orbs in photographs. To me, all they looked like were dust particles reflecting light. And to test my theory I shook out a carpet in a dark room and snapped a bunch of photos. After waiting for the dust to settle, I snapped a bunch more photos and most of the orbs were gone. The majority of the orb photos that I saw were virtually identical to my test samples. However, there was one photo that I saw that I couldn't duplicate. It was of an orb that was moving fairly fast and had a tail. It's possible that it was caused by a breeze but all the other orbs in the photo were stationary. But since wind runs in currents like a river, it's possible the orb that appeared to be moving was caught in a current while the others were not.

When I came back I had abilities that would make your hair curl but that's another story talk to you soon.

Well, that's another story I would be very interested in reading. Thanks for sharing!

BTW, that's quite the username you have there. I'll bet the religious fundies are really loving you right now.

fuzoid
http://www.live365.com/stations/fuzoid

Hi again, please bare with me the local police call me Mario the psychic their term and not mine. I've had several encounters myself, but my abilities go much further as I regard myself as one the best. As a small boy I grew up on a rough council estate and suffered severe mental and physical abuse not just at home but at school and from some nasty locals.....Some of my encounters are very confusing as I seem to have memories as an infant at the moment of conception. I was fighting my way to womb as a sperm, reaching egg then blackness. I wake again and it seemed strange to be aware of changes in light and shadows from outside and muffled sounds this continued until birth. At that moment I just wanted to go back to the womb.....I will elaborate on everything later just giving you insight of my first memories. I would need to write a book to cover 55 years.

Lets jump to my NDE. At 8 years old (some of which you all ready know about), at first nothing happened apart from visits from office looking people probing affair, wanted to take me away for tests mum wasn't having any of it. Now strange events which continue to this day follow me everywhere affecting my family and those around me our house is known as haunted by locals it doesn't bother me as I regard it as normal and know what they are. But family won't stay alone in my house, we also have a problem with a strong magnetic field running into house it affects our house alone and mobiles TV etc. I have tried moving, they just follow, I call them the OTHERS... By the way, back to 8 years old a sad boy suffering sever hardship tears welling up at this moment as I remember can't go there now. I cried out after yet more beatings help me please help me....and they did. One whom I called my friend. and when it all started with thinking back, some would call pretty scary stuff ....I have a presence with me even now ...mum took me to an old professor who hypnotized me stopping my ability but left me hypnotized. I suppose it just wore of over years. It just scares me to see one now to get it reversed. This man also tried to investigate me after witnessing events first hand. I must leave you now sorry it sounds far fetched but it's all true you can test me if you like...will continue this later bye bye for now. May your god go with you.

In 1989, I fell asleep one night knowing that the next day after work was the beginning of a long awaited camping adventure. During sleep the Grimm Reaper visited in a dream saying nothing, just stood there. I told the Grimm Reaper to go away. He "It" turned with staff in hand and walked away.

The next morning I called a friend and told her about this dream. 4:30PM that day we left for camping. 12:00AM I was in a helicopter in a coma from a dirt bike motorcycle accident.

Three months later I returned home

Point of story: I was visited by death, I almost died the following night. Did this happen because I told the Grimm Reaper to leave my bedroom and he turned around and walked away.

I don't know if this constitutes a NDE, but I had back surgery for the 2nd time just this last May 12, and I remember being in the post-op room, and the nurses trying to wake me up, saying, come on now, take a breath, you are only breathing 5 times a minute, and hearing myself scream, I mean scream for "my daddy, I want my daddy" sobbing, and literally bloodcurdling, like a child being taken from his parent, and I am 43. And remembering this, it jogged a vague memory of the very same thing, hearing myself crying out for "my daddy" during the first operation, 5 years ago, which I had not really remembered at the time. My vague remembrance of the first time it happened was almost like when you really try and remember a particular dream once you wake up, and damned if you can't remember it at all, even though it was one of the dreams you really wanted to remember. And after this last surgery, only now that memory is jogged. My father died about 9 years ago, and his death was particularly difficult for me, the youngest of 3 an 20 year enlisted air force flight man, full blood German, neat guy to know but he could have had parenting skills I guess you could say. Growing up I thought my child hood was awful, but now looking back I could see that it was way much better than most. Kinda like you don't appreciate it till its gone type knowing. And my father and I were not close what so ever, however he remains the most important figure in my whole life. I mean, my best friend recently died about 9 months ago, and it would be more appropriate for me to call out for her, other than a dad who I never felt closeness from, although that in itself is all I had ever wanted as a kid. I probably got it considering he didn't know how to express that, you know, but what do you think of this? My surgeon said my surgeries all went off without any problems, so it's bugging me. Please all comments! ty

Hey fuzoid, my much belated reply. I was tossing up whether to make it or not and it will probably turn into one of my rants but if you've got the ears....

I am torn on this subject, and I'm not just saying that. I wanted to relate a few experiences, one of which is my own. My grandfather you already know about, and these others do not relate to NDE, but they have begun to weigh upon me since this topic cropped up. It's amazing how I had learned not to consider them much at all before.

The first one is most important to me, because it was my own experience. Hate even mentioning it, but I owe you some honesty if we are to discuss these things.

When I was in year 8 our phys ed teacher gave us a practice theory test one day. I was going through the questions when I got to 'what leads from the stomach to the small intestine'. When I read it I got that typical dejavu feeling - tightening of the gut, skin prickling etc. Many times I've had dejavu, and I've even recognized having the feeling previously whilst doing the same thing (if that makes any sense). So I fully realize there's nothing magical about it in most cases.

Anyway, I had this feeling, very strong - and I knew a certain girl in the class was going to quiz the teacher on this question. So I turned around (I knew I'd do that too, as if I'd done it before. Everything I did for those few seconds just added to the feeling) and there she was, exactly where I knew she would be - and she asked the question. I realized that I knew how the teacher would reply, and actually mouthed the sentence as she spoke it. And, slacker that I was, I had no right knowing what a duodenum was!

I wrote this off, freak of chance. Perhaps subconsciously remembering the duodenum from a previous lesson etc. Seriously, I've only even thought about it a few times in all the years since. Never had another experience like this one. And I'm skeptical because to believe it, I'd have to believe my mind somehow picked up foreknowledge of something yet to happen.

Mum's cousin's daughter (phew! a friend of a friend of a friend of mine... ) supposedly said to her mother at the breakfast table one morning that one of her aunts was going to die (daughter's great aunt - the plot thickens ) She said it wouldn't be Joan, nor 'oicy' (Loyce) but one of the other two. The call came later that day. Mum told me this, the whole family has heard it, and she's pretty straight up, and I don't see why her cousin would lie about something like that to her own family. Yet some people do I think.

And of course we hear about this stuff all the time, the connection between twins, knowing when the phone's about to ring, even some physics (whilst I believe most of it is hit and miss) say things that they have no right to know. And of course NDE's - which in some cases cannot (I fully agree) be written off with a last gasp.

I believe in evolution, of natural cause and effect. I can perhaps handle that we can connect with each other on occasion, by some slight of physics or whatever the true model of the universe is. Perhaps even seeing a future event is possible, in some way different points in time can be connected. But transcending the body just doesn't fit the picture of life we have thus far teased apart. How could evolution and natural selection come up with this elaborate mechanism.Why, as long as reproduction is achieved? And if it is intelligently driven, why bother with all the cause and effect in the first place? Also, the old argument - who designed the designer. Every religion seems to have continuance in common. Death. All through history we've had beliefs of escaping its clutches. And it's so human, an animal instinctively geared for survival and with the cognitive ability to envisage not only death but survival after the fact. I don't blame anyone for their instincts.

But fuzoid, this is my main problem. I was diagnosed with major depression 3 years ago. The problem goes back a lot further than that. I spent 6 or 7 years in labs around Australia testing construction materials, huge hours, 7 day weeks/ plus I've never been the social type. All work and no play. Got to a point where I snapped, gave up entirely. Dropped out of life, and thought about death. Spent many months in a ward on suicide watch through the worst of it but I'm happy to say those bloody quacks were right in the end. Thing is, during all this I faced death. Every day. And I made an attempt - I don't think I've ever been more calm in my life. But the theme I got out of this whole thing was that the point in life has to be made by you. Your the intelligent designer. I've accepted death now, the no dice scenario seems the most logical and doesn't scare me at all. It even calms me now knowing one day the worrying and questioning will stop. Another generation will be there to continue. And perhaps life can be all the richer if you assume it as an incredible once off opportunity.
No matter how much material I read on this subject, I just don't think I could allow myself to believe it. After all the struggle, facing up to the blunt facts of life as I can reasonably see them, making peace with them - I'd feel like I've failed the test after all if I told myself there was life after death. That it would be a weakness, or a psychological crutch. I know that is silly reasoning - but it's quite a powerful emotion in my mind.
I'd love to believe. So if one day scientists actually find a way to record and verify the NDE phenomenon, I will believe. Until then - I'll worry about life and maybe in the back of my mind, I might prepare for a pleasant surprise one day.

Anyway, I'm off for a few days. If you reply to this I'll talk more when I get back.

ddd wrote:Hey fuzoid, my much belated reply. I was tossing up whether to make it or not and it will probably turn into one of my rants but if you've got the ears....

I am torn on this subject, and I'm not just saying that. I wanted to relate a few experiences, one of which is my own. My grandfather you already know about, and these others do not relate to NDE, but they have begun to weigh upon me since this topic cropped up. It's amazing how I had learned not to consider them much at all before.

The first one is most important to me, because it was my own experience. Hate even mentioning it, but I owe you some honesty if we are to discuss these things.

Let me first say, don't ever be ashamed or embarrassed of anything you write or say. Your only true commitment is to yourself and family, no one else. So if someone wants to ridicule, then it is their own ignorance. As for being torn, I completely understand. Even though I know I had a spiritual experience, I had an extremely difficult time accepting it. And I would be lying if I said I no longer question it. Even though it was my reality and I'm alive today because of it, I sometimes have my doubts. Most everyone of faith experiences doubt every once in a while.

Since we're being honest here, one of these days I will post my experience in detail.

When I was in year 8 our phys ed teacher gave us a practice theory test one day. I was going through the questions when I got to 'what leads from the stomach to the small intestine'. When I read it I got that typical dejavu feeling - tightening of the gut, skin prickling etc. Many times I've had dejavu, and I've even recognized having the feeling previously whilst doing the same thing (if that makes any sense). So I fully realize there's nothing magical about it in most cases.

Anyway, I had this feeling, very strong - and I knew a certain girl in the class was going to quiz the teacher on this question. So I turned around (I knew I'd do that too, as if I'd done it before. Everything I did for those few seconds just added to the feeling) and there she was, exactly where I knew she would be - and she asked the question. I realized that I knew how the teacher would reply, and actually mouthed the sentence as she spoke it. And, slacker that I was, I had no right knowing what a duodenum was!

I wrote this off, freak of chance. Perhaps subconsciously remembering the duodenum from a previous lesson etc. Seriously, I've only even thought about it a few times in all the years since. Never had another experience like this one. And I'm skeptical because to believe it, I'd have to believe my mind somehow picked up foreknowledge of something yet to happen.

While I don't claim to know exactly what you experienced, some theories immediately come to mind. In the book Journey of Souls, there is a very in depth description of the soul choosing their next lifetime. They describe the soul actually viewing their future life so they can either pass on it, or plan it accordingly. If this theory has any reality to it, then it's possible you were recognizing what you had already witnessed. And since this event seems to hold some significance for you, it's possible you were supposed to gain something from it.

The other theory is based on physics and non-linear time. Since time truly does not exist as we understand it, according to theory, it's possible all of past, present and future is occurring now. If the universe is holographic in nature, which I believe it is, then think of it as a film. The entire story is there and you decide to view whichever parts you choose. You can view it from the ending before you even watch the beginning! Or any number of variations! If the universe is holographic, then it's possible the information for the entire history of our universe is embedded within the wavefunction and for whatever the reason, we only experience it as linear time. But all the information is still there and it's quite possible some are able to tap into it. And if there is no such thing as an afterlife or reincarnation, then this theory would also seem to explain people who remember previous lives. Personally, I'm leaning towards both simply due to the empirical evidence.

Mum's cousin's daughter (phew! a friend of a friend of a friend of mine... ) supposedly said to her mother at the breakfast table one morning that one of her aunts was going to die (daughter's great aunt - the plot thickens ) She said it wouldn't be Joan, nor 'oicy' (Loyce) but one of the other two. The call came later that day. Mum told me this, the whole family has heard it, and she's pretty straight up, and I don't see why her cousin would lie about something like that to her own family. Yet some people do I think.

Not to demean the experience, but stories of this nature are more common than you would believe. And I have no problem with it. On the morning of 911 I had a dream that I was a marine in a desert country and I was aiming my rifle at a second floor window so my buddies could safely cross the street. It was so vivid that I woke my wife to tell her about it. It left me with a very bad feeling, only to be confirmed 5 hours later.

And of course we hear about this stuff all the time, the connection between twins, knowing when the phone's about to ring, even some physics (whilst I believe most of it is hit and miss) say things that they have no right to know. And of course NDE's - which in some cases cannot (I fully agree) be written off with a last gasp.

It's ironic that you would mention twins and the NDE in the same breath. When I was studying sociology in college, my professor was an identical twin and I wrote a paper on the NDE. The bulk of the science came from psychologist, Dr. Kenneth Ring, Professor Emeritus at the University of Connecticut. Yes, I said science. Read his book Life At Death and you'll see what I'm talking about. I also wrote a paper about twins which is how I discovered my professor was one. He confirmed most of what I had researched. Needless to say that I aced both papers.

I believe in evolution, of natural cause and effect.

As do I.

I can perhaps handle that we can connect with each other on occasion, by some slight of physics or whatever the true model of the universe is. Perhaps even seeing a future event is possible, in some way different points in time can be connected.

Which, in my opinion, is a given.

But transcending the body just doesn't fit the picture of life we have thus far teased apart. How could evolution and natural selection come up with this elaborate mechanism.Why, as long as reproduction is achieved?

That's just it, there is no evolutionary benefit to the survival of a species to create an escape mechanism at the moment of death. And the simple fact that much of the anecdotal evidence can be confirmed points to something more than a dream.

And if it is intelligently driven, why bother with all the cause and effect in the first place?

You're second guessing the purpose (if any) for our existence. You're projecting your own beliefs on to a possible creator, which is the same thing the religious do. My advice? Don't worry about it. Just keep living your life and the rest will fall into place, or not.

Also, the old argument - who designed the designer.

Yeah, the ol' skeleton in the closet. The problem with this skeleton is that most who raise the issue are doing so from a religious perspective of who or what God is supposed to be. The fact is, no matter how strongly anyone believes otherwise, no one knows. And since God is an unknown entity, it makes no sense to debate who created Him/Her/It/? because you will never have an answer. Either God exists, or not. It's as simple as that. My advice? Don't worry about it.

Every religion seems to have continuance in common. Death. All through history we've had beliefs of escaping its clutches. And it's so human, an animal instinctively geared for survival and with the cognitive ability to envisage not only death but survival after the fact. I don't blame anyone for their instincts.

Burial evidence seems to point towards Neanderthal and Cromagnum having some sort of religious beliefs as well. So it seems we have a very long history of being believers.

I need to stop here for now. It's getting late and I still haven't eaten my dinner. I'll try to respond to the rest of your message tomorrow.

fuzoid
http://www.live365.com/stations/fuzoid