fuzoid wrote:

What I meant was religion is about the supernatural being and not about the physical world.

Thanks for the clarification. However, there are some nature based faiths that would disagree with you.

That physical object was only a representation of a super being, just like a church which represents God.

fuzoid wrote:

For what I understand, illusion is something that deceives by producing a false or misleading impression of reality. Therefore scientific theory is an illusion while physical reality is reality. Why? because if you put a gun to your head and pull the trigger you're gone, but not science.

You are mistaken. Sometimes illusion is more real than your perception of physical reality. Actually, in this case, Illusion IS more real! To gain a better understanding it is necessary to lay a little ground work. What you refer to as physical reality really has a dual nature, particle and wave. It just depends on whether or not it's being observed. And that's the freaky part! Observation (consciousness) is an absolute necessary component to our physical existence. Without observation, all would revert to the wave function. So it is our observation that creates objective reality. And since observation is a necessary component, what is doing the observing since your body, being composed or particles, is also part of the wave function? Meaning what you refer to as yourself (your body) really does not exist except when being observed. Have you ever heard the statement, You are not your body? Well, it is a literal statement, literally! So if you're not your body, what are you?

BTW, scientific theory can't be illusion. It can describe illusion and make certain predictions, but it can't be illusion. Your gun example makes no sense to me. Please clarify.

I am not mistaken. I am afraid you are. By definition "illusion" is a false impression of reality. Since your body is not real, you can do anything to it and it won't have any effect, right?. Do you want to prove me wrong? Don't try! But if you insist all you have to do is point a fully loaded pistol to your leg and pull the trigger. If it doesn't put a hole in your leg then your leg is not real and I am wrong. But before you do that, consult with a professional first, make sure you're not insane, which I believe you are. And don't blame me if you become incapacitated.

fuzoid wrote:Sorry, the name is not familiar to me. And how can someone visually observe that which is invisible?

Good question, why don't you get his video and watch it? You might as well be learning pseudoscience.

You will need to provide much more information if you expect me to watch this doctor's video because I just googled the name and received multiple hits of multiple people. Apparently your Dr. Taff is not the only Dr. Taff. Is it Barry Taff?

Alright, since you have the courage to ask I will give it to you.
Dr. Barry Taff, a 36 years experience parapsychologist, appeared in a movie and gave his account on the phenomenon that he witnessed. The movie was based on a true incident. Watch this movie "THE ENTITY" first and then watch the extra feature "The entity files" where Dr. gave his account.
Notice Dr. said "What we visually observed we could not photograph, what we photographed we never saw." This means that whatever is observed cannot be verified and whatever is in the picture also cannot be verified.
They also used a geiger counter and Dr. said "when the phenomenon was peaking, we got no reading whatsoever. When the phenomenon was absent, we got normal background reading." Sounds like the geiger counter was being jammed eh...

fuzoid wrote:

xamuyees wrote:Nope, whoever allowed the soul/spirit to exist and have consciousness?

What you're telling me is that you believe this on faith alone. Since NO ONE knows for sure, it can't be anything but. Why does there need to be a supreme ruler? For all you know, all spiritual beings, including what you refer to as God, are equals. Perhaps there is no hierarchy!

Your car did not exist by chance or by nature. Someone made it, that's what I am saying.

fuzoid wrote:I would read the book first before you claim it fits with your convictions because it does contradict the current interpretation of Christianity. But since you mentioned it fits with your convictions, I need to ask, do you believe in the stereotypical hell? Do you believe Jesus is the only way? Do you believe some will go to heaven while others will be tormented for an eternity?

I have some reservation of it to a degree.

Tell what to Dr. Taff? That there is no such thing as the supernatural? Think about it, if the spiritual does exist, then it would have to be natural! And if it's natural, then it has to have a scientific explanation. And the only that I can think of at the moment is that string theory is valid and the spiritual realm just vibrates at a much higher rate!

Right, Watch the Dr. and tell me the scientific explanation, ok. Also tell me what the Dr. think about what he saw.

fuzoid wrote:With all due respect, if your imagination were as good as that, you would be able to create a universe the same as ours and you would have all the answers to the universe's most perplexing questions. So you'll have to pardon me for doubting your imagination is that good.

If your knowledge can then I imagination can too. You can't because your knowledge was just a "guess" and so do my imagination.

Then there is no point for looking into science or religion.

Why? Please clarify your point. Anyway, since we truly don't know if God exists, then there is every reason to inquire into His existence. And since science rules the universe that we live in, there is every reason to plumb the depths of it to learn all that I can!

Just live your life and don't worry about anything.

fuzoid wrote:

xamuyees wrote:Longer life maybe, but not Immortality, and too late for me.

How do you know, not immortality? If the aging process can be stopped in its tracks, why wouldn't you be able to live forever? And why would it be too late for you? Medical science is doing wonders with stem cell research.

First, I don't believe it. Second, remember (not that you believe)the pyramid era? It's a defiance against God and He is not going to let it happen.

So you do believe in hell? Then George Ritchie's NDE does not fit with your convictions. Read the book.

His experience was far before judgement of mankind.

fuzoid wrote:You are judging this conversation based on what you deem to be rational and through your faith. In my faith, there is no such place as hell, so there is no prison to go to. So you are in no position to deem my beliefs as irrational just as I am in no position to judge your faith. Once you do, then out come the claws and we have conflict once again. If this is the type of conversation you want, then go for it. As for me, I am trying to tone it down somewhat.

Anyway, I wasn't referring to rational as in, to make sense. Because the atheist can judge us both as irrational for having faith in something that can be scientifically proven. I was speaking specifically of having a non-judgemental conversation where we can both express our ideas. If you can't do that, then this conversation has already ended. And if that's the case, then I wish you the best of luck with your faith.

If it doesn't make sense in reality then it is irrational even if it is non-judgemental. Reasoning with the martians prove no point and make no sense whatsoever.

xamuyees wrote:

fuzoid wrote:

xamuyees wrote:What I meant was religion is about the supernatural being and not about the physical world.

Thanks for the clarification. However, there are some nature based faiths that would disagree with you.

That physical object was only a representation of a super being, just like a church which represents God.

What physical object? We weren't talking about a physical object! You claimed that religion is about the supernatural being and not about the physical world and I disagreed. Wiccans will also disagree as will any other nature based religion.

xamuyees wrote:

fuzoid wrote:

xamuyees wrote:For what I understand, illusion is something that deceives by producing a false or misleading impression of reality. Therefore scientific theory is an illusion while physical reality is reality. Why? because if you put a gun to your head and pull the trigger you're gone, but not science.

You are mistaken. Sometimes illusion is more real than your perception of physical reality. Actually, in this case, Illusion IS more real! To gain a better understanding it is necessary to lay a little ground work. What you refer to as physical reality really has a dual nature, particle and wave. It just depends on whether or not it's being observed. And that's the freaky part! Observation (consciousness) is an absolute necessary component to our physical existence. Without observation, all would revert to the wave function. So it is our observation that creates objective reality. And since observation is a necessary component, what is doing the observing since your body, being composed or particles, is also part of the wave function? Meaning what you refer to as yourself (your body) really does not exist except when being observed. Have you ever heard the statement, You are not your body? Well, it is a literal statement, literally! So if you're not your body, what are you?

BTW, scientific theory can't be illusion. It can describe illusion and make certain predictions, but it can't be illusion. Your gun example makes no sense to me. Please clarify.

I am not mistaken. I am afraid you are.

Believe what you will but this still does not change the fact we are all living a life of illusion. From the moment you wake until you close your eyes for sleep, you are living a life of illusion.

By definition "illusion" is a false impression of reality.

True, the definition for illusion is something that deceives. And it is our perception of so-called physical reality that is the deception!

Since your body is not real, you can do anything to it and it won't have any effect, right?. Do you want to prove me wrong? Don't try! But if you insist all you have to do is point a fully loaded pistol to your leg and pull the trigger. If it doesn't put a hole in your leg then your leg is not real and I am wrong.

LOL!!! Oh yea of so little knowledge of quantum physics. I never said if you cut yourself you won't bleed. Nor have I ever said that you wouldn't die if you decided to blow your brains out with a gun. This is why I said previously that in this case, Illusion IS more real. And since you obviously have no desire to research what I am describing, I will try to explain it to you on a level that you will understand.

With the advent of quantum mechanics, physicists realized that ALL matter is both particle and wave. They also realized that it is our observation that determines what form the particles took. In other words, consciousness is an integral component to our so-called physical reality as it is our observation that creates objective reality. It was the double slit experiment with light that definitively proved photons were both particle and wave. What form it took depended upon the experiment/observation.

As much as physicists would like to do away with the role our consciousness plays in creating physical reality, almost a century later it remains the skeleton in the closet. You can read about quantum mechanics in more detail here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_mechanics

So, if matter has a dual nature and it is our observation that brings physical reality to the forefront, then logically information about our physical reality is encoded within the wavefunction and it is our consciousness which is decoding the information creating physical reality. Enter the holographic theory...

First proposed by Gerald 't Hooft, it basically states that all the information about our universe is contained within the 2D event horizon of our universe. This information is transmitted through the wavefunction and it is our consciousness that decodes the information creating objective reality. And before you reject this theory, it recently gained support through the GEO600 Gravity Wave Detection experiment. It is as physicist Craig Hogan stated, "If the GEO600 result is what I suspect it is, then we are all living in a giant cosmic hologram."
A hologram is a 3D illusion created by the information encoded on the 2D surface of a holographic plate. Google holographic universe for more information.

But before you do that, consult with a professional first, make sure you're not insane, which I believe you are. And don't blame me if you become incapacitated.

Insane? I suppose this is preferable to being a rigid old fart. LOL!!! And if I'm insane, then so are a plethora of physicists. Oh, and you better stop using your computer, microwave oven, television, telephone, and an endless list of technology that quantum physics has made possible. In fact, as bizarre as quantum physics may seem, it is the most successful physics theory to date. So if you're going to reject the theory, then you have to reject everything it produced as well.

If quantum physics is a bit too much for you, then here is more proof that you're living an illusion. Allow me to ask, do you believe you're actually seeing your computer monitor? What about the desk it's sitting on? What about the floor your desk is sitting on? If you say yes, you are wrong. What you believe you are seeing is actually nothing more than the reflection of photons. It is photons bouncing off of objects that allows you to see them. And it is allegedly your brain that converts these reflected photons into an image that you believe you are seeing. The sensation of touch is similar in that it is your brain which is converting electrical impulses into the sensation of touch. In other words, what you believe is really out there is really all in your head. And since your head/brain is really part of the wavefunction, even this is illusion.

fuzoid wrote:

xamuyees wrote:

fuzoid wrote:Sorry, the name is not familiar to me. And how can someone visually observe that which is invisible?

Good question, why don't you get his video and watch it? You might as well be learning pseudoscience.

You will need to provide much more information if you expect me to watch this doctor's video because I just googled the name and received multiple hits of multiple people. Apparently your Dr. Taff is not the only Dr. Taff. Is it Barry Taff?

xamuyees wrote:Alright, since you have the courage to ask I will give it to you.

Courage has nothing to do with it. Unlike yourself, I'm not afraid to inquire into so-called evidence wherever it may lead. Not doing so means I am not fully informed and am not fully qualified to comment on it one way or the other.

Dr. Barry Taff, a 36 years experience parapsychologist, appeared in a movie and gave his account on the phenomenon that he witnessed. The movie was based on a true incident. Watch this movie "THE ENTITY" first and then watch the extra feature "The entity files" where Dr. gave his account.

I've already gathered that it is Barry Taff you were referring to and I've already begun learning about him. And as surprising as this may seem to you, I do not consider legitimate parapsychological research into ghosts as pseudoscience. In fact, I have no problem with the concept of ghosts. In my estimation, there are two types: 1) Disembodied spirits that are stuck in this realm for whatever the reason. 2) Possible bleed over from another dimension of existence.

Notice Dr. said "What we visually observed we could not photograph, what we photographed we never saw." This means that whatever is observed cannot be verified and whatever is in the picture also cannot be verified.

This comment is similar to what others have to say on programs such as Ghost Hunters.

They also used a geiger counter and Dr. said "when the phenomenon was peaking, we got no reading whatsoever. When the phenomenon was absent, we got normal background reading." Sounds like the geiger counter was being jammed eh...

Uh, no, because it's not a geiger counter they're using. It's an electro-magnetic detector. A geiger counter is for measuring radiation, not a disruption of the background electro-magnetic fields.

I'm curious, what point were you trying to make by mentioning Dr. Taff and ghosts?

xamuyees wrote:

fuzoid wrote:

xamuyees wrote:Nope, whoever allowed the soul/spirit to exist and have consciousness?

What you're telling me is that you believe this on faith alone. Since NO ONE knows for sure, it can't be anything but. Why does there need to be a supreme ruler? For all you know, all spiritual beings, including what you refer to as God, are equals. Perhaps there is no hierarchy!

Your car did not exist by chance or by nature. Someone made it, that's what I am saying.

How can you compare the manufacture of a car to whether or not there is some sort of spiritual hierarchy? The examples are not even close! Anyway, once again, you believe what you believe simply on faith alone. Since you can't prove what you believe nor can you provide an example, the only way to believe is through faith alone.

xamuyees wrote:

fuzoid wrote:I would read the book first before you claim it fits with your convictions because it does contradict the current interpretation of Christianity. But since you mentioned it fits with your convictions, I need to ask, do you believe in the stereotypical hell? Do you believe Jesus is the only way? Do you believe some will go to heaven while others will be tormented for an eternity?

I have some reservation of it to a degree.

Can you be a little more specific? To what degree do you believe?

xamuyees wrote:

fuzoid wrote:Tell what to Dr. Taff? That there is no such thing as the supernatural? Think about it, if the spiritual does exist, then it would have to be natural! And if it's natural, then it has to have a scientific explanation. And the only that I can think of at the moment is that string theory is valid and the spiritual realm just vibrates at a much higher rate!

Right, Watch the Dr. and tell me the scientific explanation, ok. Also tell me what the Dr. think about what he saw.

Do you have a specific video in mind? Google the name and you get a butt load of hits. I'm not about to go through every single website just to answer your question. Anyway, once again, if there are such things as ghosts, then they are a natural consequence of our existence meaning there is nothing supernatural about them! And while science does not have the tools to formulate a theory at this time, there is no reason to believe it will not at some point in the future.

xamuyees wrote:

fuzoid wrote:With all due respect, if your imagination were as good as that, you would be able to create a universe the same as ours and you would have all the answers to the universe's most perplexing questions. So you'll have to pardon me for doubting your imagination is that good.

If your knowledge can then I imagination can too. You can't because your knowledge was just a "guess" and so do my imagination.

Huh? I have no clue what you're trying to say here. Actually, your response makes no sense at all since it in no way represents what we were originally discussing. Here, let's clarify for the casual reader:

You - What do you get from believing in science anyway? Nothing!

Me - Wrong! I gain knowledge about the wonders of our universe.

You - My imagination is just as good as that.

Me - With all due respect, if your imagination were as good as that, you would be able to create a universe the same as ours and you would have all the answers to the universe's most perplexing questions. So you'll have to pardon me for doubting your imagination is that good.

Now please explain how your above answer fits in with this conversation. My knowledge can what? What am I guessing at, knowledge? Are you saying physics is just a guess? Are you saying your imagination is just as valid as science?

xamuyees wrote:

fuzoid wrote:

xamuyees wrote:Then there is no point for looking into science or religion.

Why? Please clarify your point. Anyway, since we truly don't know if God exists, then there is every reason to inquire into His existence. And since science rules the universe that we live in, there is every reason to plumb the depths of it to learn all that I can!

Just live your life and don't worry about anything.

Sorry, such a life would be contrary to my inquisitive nature. I would rather learn all I can while I can instead of remaining in ignorance.

xamuyees wrote:

fuzoid wrote:

xamuyees wrote:Longer life maybe, but not Immortality, and too late for me.

How do you know, not immortality? If the aging process can be stopped in its tracks, why wouldn't you be able to live forever? And why would it be too late for you? Medical science is doing wonders with stem cell research.

First, I don't believe it.

Don't believe what, stopping the ageing process or stem cell research? Anyway, don't take my word for it, Google it and read for yourself. Here, I did it for you:
http://www.abc.net.au/science/articles/ ... 331197.htm

Second, remember (not that you believe)the pyramid era? It's a defiance against God and He is not going to let it happen.

Right, and God was so offended that he dispersed humanity and confused their languages. Sorry, it's nothing more than a fairy tale. If God was offended by the Babylonian tower, what about todays skyscrapers? They are much taller than the Babylonian tower. Why isn't God destroying them?

Anyway, you are making an assumption about God that has no empirical support. I can think of no scientific or religious reason why stopping the ageing process would be in defiance of God. Remember, if God is the creator, then He created humans with the knowledge and ability to do great things, including stopping the ageing process.

fuzoid wrote:So you do believe in hell? Then George Ritchie's NDE does not fit with your convictions. Read the book.

xamuyees wrote:His experience was far before judgement of mankind.

Huh? Allow me to ask, do you believe George Ritchie really experienced an NDE where Jesus took him on a tour? If so, do you believe Jesus would have lied to George? I highly recommend you read the book before further commenting on it.

fuzoid wrote:You are judging this conversation based on what you deem to be rational and through your faith. In my faith, there is no such place as hell, so there is no prison to go to. So you are in no position to deem my beliefs as irrational just as I am in no position to judge your faith. Once you do, then out come the claws and we have conflict once again. If this is the type of conversation you want, then go for it. As for me, I am trying to tone it down somewhat.

Anyway, I wasn't referring to rational as in, to make sense. Because the atheist can judge us both as irrational for having faith in something that can be scientifically proven. I was speaking specifically of having a non-judgemental conversation where we can both express our ideas. If you can't do that, then this conversation has already ended. And if that's the case, then I wish you the best of luck with your faith.

xamuyees wrote:If it doesn't make sense in reality then it is irrational even if it is non-judgemental. Reasoning with the martians prove no point and make no sense whatsoever.

So what you're saying is your faith is irrational and makes no sense? Who am I to argue with such logic? LOL!!! BTW, what do martians have to do with anything? Anyway, since you brought it up, here's my response.

Since you state, "Reasoning with the martians...," you are implying that martians exist, hypothetically speaking, of course! So if martians hypothetically exist, why would it make no sense to reason with them?

fuzoid
http://www.live35.com/stations/fuzoid

I hate to hijack this thread like this with you. I will just pick the simplest one to discuss with you so you won't get off track.

fuzoid wrote:Believe what you will but this still does not change the fact we are all living a life of illusion. From the moment you wake until you close your eyes for sleep, you are living a life of illusion.

True, the definition for illusion is something that deceives. And it is our perception of so-called physical reality that is the deception!

The perception is after the information is received and processed, however, however the processed information is translated, it doesn't change the object of witch the photons reflected off. Since the perception is doing the deception then the physical object is real, and the perception is the illusion. If the computer monitor is not real then let it be thrown at you and it won't affect you. That's all I'm saying.

I've already gathered that it is Barry Taff you were referring to and I've already begun learning about him. And as surprising as this may seem to you, I do not consider legitimate parapsychological research into ghosts as pseudoscience. In fact, I have no problem with the concept of ghosts. In my estimation, there are two types: 1) Disembodied spirits that are stuck in this realm for whatever the reason. 2) Possible bleed over from another dimension of existence.

If it's not pseudoscience the there must be a scientific explanation of it. And this is where you base your belief on - science. So I expect to get a link referring to a scientific explanation - not an estimation.

Notice Dr. said "What we visually observed we could not photograph, what we photographed we never saw." This means that whatever is observed cannot be verified and whatever is in the picture also cannot be verified.

This comment is similar to what others have to say on programs such as Ghost Hunters.

They also used a geiger counter and Dr. said "when the phenomenon was peaking, we got no reading whatsoever. When the phenomenon was absent, we got normal background reading." Sounds like the geiger counter was being jammed eh...

Uh, no, because it's not a geiger counter they're using. It's an electro-magnetic detector. A geiger counter is for measuring radiation, not a disruption of the background electro-magnetic fields.

Watch before you make a comment, because you're wrong.

Do you have a specific video in mind? Google the name and you get a butt load of hits. I'm not about to go through every single website just to answer your question. Anyway, once again, if there are such things as ghosts, then they are a natural consequence of our existence meaning there is nothing supernatural about them! And while science does not have the tools to formulate a theory at this time, there is no reason to believe it will not at some point in the future.

Didn't you see "THE ENTITY" above? It's a movie. Get the DVD format one. If it's not available at your local video store, order it online. The trailer:

or
http://www.amazon.com/gp/mpd/permalink/m2RSFEBTNSA0CG

xamuyees wrote:If it doesn't make sense in reality then it is irrational even if it is non-judgemental. Reasoning with the martians prove no point and make no sense whatsoever.

So what you're saying is your faith is irrational and makes no sense? Who am I to argue with such logic? LOL!!! BTW, what do martians have to do with anything? Anyway, since you brought it up, here's my response.

Since you state, "Reasoning with the martians...," you are implying that martians exist, hypothetically speaking, of course! So if martians hypothetically exist, why would it make no sense to reason with them?

You will understand it at a later time.

xamuyees wrote:I hate to hijack this thread like this with you. I will just pick the simplest one to discuss with you so you won't get off track.

So I won't get off track? <chuckle> And I wouldn't worry about hijacking this thread. If the moderators deem it necessary, they can move our conversation to a new one. So I really would have appreciated it if you would have responded in full. I'll just assume you have no answers for the topics you skipped over.

fuzoid wrote:Believe what you will but this still does not change the fact we are all living a life of illusion. From the moment you wake until you close your eyes for sleep, you are living a life of illusion.

True, the definition for illusion is something that deceives. And it is our perception of so-called physical reality that is the deception!

xamuyees wrote:The perception is after the information is received and processed, however, however the processed information is translated, it doesn't change the object of witch the photons reflected off. Since the perception is doing the deception then the physical object is real, and the perception is the illusion. If the computer monitor is not real then let it be thrown at you and it won't affect you. That's all I'm saying.

My above quote is out of context. No matter.

Actually it makes a huge difference regardless your perception because what you are perceiving is illusion! The simple act of photon reflection is illusion as well! For whatever the reason our consciousness is interacting with the wavefunction giving us the appearance of a physical reality. It is the illusion of physical reality that is embedded within the wavefunction and for some purpose we are experiencing it. Yes, I did say purpose. The fact that we are experiencing an illusion as physical reality does indeed seem to imply purpose.

Another illusion which can be verified on the physical level is that so-called solids are really nothing more than empty space. Well, not so much empty because the space is full of energy. Anyway, if you were to magnify an atom to the size of our solar system, the distance between the individual particles would far exceed what we see in our solar system.

fuzoid wrote:I've already gathered that it is Barry Taff you were referring to and I've already begun learning about him. And as surprising as this may seem to you, I do not consider legitimate parapsychological research into ghosts as pseudoscience. In fact, I have no problem with the concept of ghosts. In my estimation, there are two types: 1) Disembodied spirits that are stuck in this realm for whatever the reason. 2) Possible bleed over from another dimension of existence.

xamuyees wrote:If it's not pseudoscience the there must be a scientific explanation of it. And this is where you base your belief on - science. So I expect to get a link referring to a scientific explanation - not an estimation.

As you will note, I stated legitimate parapsychological research. Meaning in accordance with scientific standards. Just because I previously mentioned the show Ghost Hunters does not mean I believe they are legitimate parapsychological scientists. In fact, they are far from it. While they try to give the appearance of being objective, they are not. Their goal is to locate spooks and that's what they do even when the evidence does not agree with their findings.

Anyway, what part of, ... once again, if there are such things as ghosts, then they are a natural consequence of our existence meaning there is nothing supernatural about them! And while science does not have the tools to formulate a theory at this time, there is no reason to believe it will not at some point in the future., did you not understand?

xamuyees wrote:

fuzoid wrote:

xamuyees wrote:They also used a geiger counter and Dr. said "when the phenomenon was peaking, we got no reading whatsoever. When the phenomenon was absent, we got normal background reading." Sounds like the geiger counter was being jammed eh...

Uh, no, because it's not a geiger counter they're using. It's an electro-magnetic detector. A geiger counter is for measuring radiation, not a disruption of the background electro-magnetic fields.

Watch before you make a comment, because you're wrong.

So what you're telling me is that ghosts are radioactive?

fuzoid wrote:Do you have a specific video in mind? Google the name and you get a butt load of hits. I'm not about to go through every single website just to answer your question. Anyway, once again, if there are such things as ghosts, then they are a natural consequence of our existence meaning there is nothing supernatural about them! And while science does not have the tools to formulate a theory at this time, there is no reason to believe it will not at some point in the future.

xamuyees wrote:Didn't you see "THE ENTITY" above? It's a movie. Get the DVD format one. If it's not available at your local video store, order it online. The trailer:

or
http://www.amazon.com/gp/mpd/permalink/m2RSFEBTNSA0CG

No, I have never seen the movie. I never understood the senseless blood, guts, and gore in horror movies. But since you claim it's based on a true story, maybe I will.

xamuyees wrote:

fuzoid wrote:

xamuyees wrote:If it doesn't make sense in reality then it is irrational even if it is non-judgemental. Reasoning with the martians prove no point and make no sense whatsoever.

So what you're saying is your faith is irrational and makes no sense? Who am I to argue with such logic? LOL!!! BTW, what do martians have to do with anything? Anyway, since you brought it up, here's my response.

Since you state, "Reasoning with the martians...," you are implying that martians exist, hypothetically speaking, of course! So if martians hypothetically exist, why would it make no sense to reason with them?

You will understand it at a later time.

What do you mean I will understand at a later time? Why not just explain it to me? Besides, I'm an impatient person and don't like to wait. So explain away.

fuzoid
http://www.live365.com/stations/fuzoid

fuzoid wrote:So what you're telling me is that ghosts are radioactive?

Well, they're not completely alive...
Sorry. Bad joke.

fuzoid wrote:So I won't get off track? <chuckle> And I wouldn't worry about hijacking this thread. If the moderators deem it necessary, they can move our conversation to a new one. So I really would have appreciated it if you would have responded in full. I'll just assume you have no answers for the topics you skipped over.

My above quote is out of context. No matter.

Actually it makes a huge difference regardless your perception because what you are perceiving is illusion! The simple act of photon reflection is illusion as well! For whatever the reason our consciousness is interacting with the wavefunction giving us the appearance of a physical reality. It is the illusion of physical reality that is embedded within the wavefunction and for some purpose we are experiencing it. Yes, I did say purpose. The fact that we are experiencing an illusion as physical reality does indeed seem to imply purpose.

Another illusion which can be verified on the physical level is that so-called solids are really nothing more than empty space. Well, not so much empty because the space is full of energy. Anyway, if you were to magnify an atom to the size of our solar system, the distance between the individual particles would far exceed what we see in our solar system.

I am afraid It is of rubbish if our differences cannot be understood.

By definition: Real/reality= being an actual thing; having objective existence
By definition: illusion = false reality

You said: illusion = real/reality = actual thing

You contradicted or change the definition of the word "illusion." We can't make valid and meaningful argument if you're being delusional. You must support your claim with definition and findings if you think you're not being delusional, otherwise take some time out and reconsider the reality of the world that you live in. I think you're too obsessive with science you're losing the world of reality.

xamuyees wrote:If it's not pseudoscience the there must be a scientific explanation of it. And this is where you base your belief on - science. So I expect to get a link referring to a scientific explanation - not an estimation.

Anyway, what part of, ... once again, if there are such things as ghosts, then they are a natural consequence of our existence meaning there is nothing supernatural about them! And while science does not have the tools to formulate a theory at this time, there is no reason to believe it will not at some point in the future., did you not understand?

Oh sure, I understand. You can't find any scientific explanation because there isn't any, so you apply wishful thinking, hope, faith and even belief to satisfy your stance, I know. Get over it. Science stops when physical ceased to exist.

No, I have never seen the movie. I never understood the senseless blood, guts, and gore in horror movies. But since you claim it's based on a true story, maybe I will.

Remember ignorance? Watch the movie and the doctor. You will understand the world better than you do now.
The movie may be some what scary but, you will get over it. Enjoy...

fuzoid wrote:Actually it makes a huge difference regardless your perception because what you are perceiving is illusion! The simple act of photon reflection is illusion as well! For whatever the reason our consciousness is interacting with the wavefunction giving us the appearance of a physical reality. It is the illusion of physical reality that is embedded within the wavefunction and for some purpose we are experiencing it. Yes, I did say purpose. The fact that we are experiencing an illusion as physical reality does indeed seem to imply purpose.

Another illusion which can be verified on the physical level is that so-called solids are really nothing more than empty space. Well, not so much empty because the space is full of energy. Anyway, if you were to magnify an atom to the size of our solar system, the distance between the individual particles would far exceed what we see in our solar system.

xamuyees wrote:I am afraid It is of rubbish if our differences cannot be understood.

Are you really too lazy to verify or disprove anything I am telling you? Anyway, here's the problem as I see it. You make bogus claims with bogus evidence and links and expect people to believe, or at least read, your bogus evidence and links. But yet when someone is presenting you with scientific fact, you blow it off because you are too set in your ways to take on any new information. Therefore for you, it is rubbish.

Well.... what do you know.... you can't teach an old dog new tricks!

By definition: Real/reality= being an actual thing; having objective existence
By definition: illusion = false reality

You said: illusion = real/reality = actual thing

Here's another problem, you're getting too hung up on word definition without a proper understanding of what I've been explaining to you. Since you have the time to hang out on a computer, you have the time to Google or Wiki quantum mechanics, holographic universe, wavefunction, and a whole slew of other scientific terminology that people have been throwing at you. Your failure to do so tells me you could give a rats a** about what other people think while you want other people to listen to you. Tell me, is ignorance truly bliss?

You contradicted or change the definition of the word "illusion." We can't make valid and meaningful argument if you're being delusional.

I contradicted nothing! You just failed to understand anything I explained to you. So I'm going to really dumb it down for you now so I don't have to keep repeating myself. What you believe is real, the so-called physical reality, IS the illusion. ALL matter in our universe has a dual nature, particle and wave. When it is not being observed, physical reality reverts to the wavefunction. In other words, it no longer exists as you understand it. So if it no longer exists as a solid object, what does it exist as? Wave! And even this may be illusion if holographic theory is deemed to be the correct interpretation. So, just because your senses tell you something is real does not make it so because ultimately, nothing truly exists! And paradoxically, nothing is something. I'm going to leave you pondering this bit of information for a while. Tell me when you get it. Here's a hint, I recently spoke about this somewhere else within this forum.

You must support your claim with definition and findings if you think you're not being delusional, otherwise take some time out and reconsider the reality of the world that you live in. I think you're too obsessive with science you're losing the world of reality.

I have been doing nothing but supporting my claims. It's not my fault if you don't have the faculty to understand it.

Speaking of being deluded, here's another tidbit for you. From the moment you were born you were indoctrinated into a world of illusion. But not knowing any better, you accepted the illusion as real which has been reinforced everyday since. However, the truth of the illusion is staring you in the face and you refuse to see it. Nor do you care to see it. You have been deluded since day one and are quite comfortable living your delusional life. So when you speak of being deluded, keep a mirror handy.

xamuyees wrote:If it's not pseudoscience the there must be a scientific explanation of it. And this is where you base your belief on - science. So I expect to get a link referring to a scientific explanation - not an estimation.

fuzoid wrote:Anyway, what part of, ... once again, if there are such things as ghosts, then they are a natural consequence of our existence meaning there is nothing supernatural about them! And while science does not have the tools to formulate a theory at this time, there is no reason to believe it will not at some point in the future., did you not understand?

xamuyees wrote:Oh sure, I understand.

No, you don't! You haven't a clue! Read below.

You can't find any scientific explanation because there isn't any, so you apply wishful thinking, hope, faith and even belief to satisfy your stance, I know. Get over it.

LOL!!! The pot calling the kettle black. What I find ironic about all of this is that you are the one trying to convince others of your Dr. Taff and ghost theories, whatever they may be, not me.

And it appears you missed the gist entirely once again. Of course there is no scientific explanation because it is as I said, science does not have the tools to formulate a theory at this time! This does not mean that it never will. The parapsychological can be studied through the scientific method providing it had the right tools. Period! So I suggest you get over it. As for wishful thinking, hope and faith, you need it a lot more than I do with all the pseudoscience and fraudulent doctors you cite as your sources and evidence. Oh, and you never did bother to explain what point you were trying to make by bringing the parapsychological into the equation. Please do.

Science stops when physical ceased to exist.

And you know this on what authority? The wavefunction is not physical yet science describes it quite accurately. The vacuum of space is not physical yet science describes it quite accurately. The energy that fills this vacuum is not physical yet science describes it quite accurately. Sound waves are not physical yet science describes them quite accurately. Radio waves are not physical yet science describes them quite accurately. I could go on but this is becoming tiresome. So, what do your authorities have to say about that?

fuzoid wrote: No, I have never seen the movie. I never understood the senseless blood, guts, and gore in horror movies. But since you claim it's based on a true story, maybe I will.

xamuyees wrote:Remember ignorance? Watch the movie and the doctor.

What does ignorance have to do with watching a movie? It's a movie for Christ's sake! It doesn't matter if its creators purport that it's based on a true story. Especially with the creative freedom all directors use to make the movie more enjoyable! Anyway, how exactly is a movie supposed to convince me when I already admitted to having no problem with the paranormal. There are far too many anecdotes to reject them all. So logically I have to conclude that there is something worth looking into. But the fact is, I could care less about ghouls and goblins, this is your bag. So you deal with it. However I will make a promise to you. I promise I will watch this movie if you take the time and educate yourself on quantum theory. If you're going to reject the illusion, then you might as well do it from an informed position.

You will understand the world better than you do now.

How so? How could a movie be so earth shattering that it would change my very understanding of the world? Besides, I think I have a pretty good grasp on it right now, thank you.

The movie may be some what scary but, you will get over it. Enjoy...

It's not scary movies I dislike, it's the senseless violence. I see no redeeming qualities in any of it with the exception of giving everyone a natural high. Which is exactly what it's intended to do.

fuzoid
http://www.live365.com/stations/fuzoid

fuzoid wrote:

xamuyees wrote:I am afraid It is of rubbish if our differences cannot be understood.

Are you really too lazy to verify or disprove anything I am telling you? Anyway, here's the problem as I see it. You make bogus claims with bogus evidence and links and expect people to believe, or at least read, your bogus evidence and links. But yet when someone is presenting you with scientific fact, you blow it off because you are too set in your ways to take on any new information. Therefore for you, it is rubbish.

Sure, I disprove anything that come from a delusional mind and against world beliefs. Scientific fact? You mean "illusion" as reality? LOL That's from you.

And it appears you missed the gist entirely once again. Of course there is no scientific explanation because it is as I said, science does not have the tools to formulate a theory at this time! This does not mean that it never will. The parapsychological can be studied through the scientific method providing it had the right tools. Period! So I suggest you get over it. As for wishful thinking, hope and faith, you need it a lot more than I do with all the pseudoscience and fraudulent doctors you cite as your sources and evidence.

You know what, I was nice and gave you facts and proofs that you lacked yet you discarded them as bogus and fraudulent. My suggest to you is don't look at or read them. If you do you will be lying and cheating yourself and the world. Let an ignorant be an ignorant. As for me, I don't have wishful thinking. I have enough evidences and reasons.

Oh, and you never did bother to explain what point you were trying to make by bringing the parapsychological into the equation. Please do.

Why would I? May be you did have a clue, the clue of not having a clue.

xamuyees wrote:I am afraid It is of rubbish if our differences cannot be understood.

fuzoid wrote: you really too lazy to verify or disprove anything I am telling you? Anyway, here's the problem as I see it. You make bogus claims with bogus evidence and links and expect people to believe, or at least read, your bogus evidence and links. But yet when someone is presenting you with scientific fact, you blow it off because you are too set in your ways to take on any new information. Therefore for you, it is rubbish.

xamuyees wrote:Sure, I disprove anything that come from a delusional mind and against world beliefs.

So you think you can disprove what I've been trying to explain to you, huh? Go ahead, give it a shot!

Scientific fact? You mean "illusion" as reality? LOL That's from you.

Since movies seem to be a source that you rely on for your evidence, then picture it similar to The Matrix, minus the robots and human batteries. You are living a life of illusion that, similar to The Matrix, might have been programmed. For all you know, we are nothing more than computer code being played out on some mainframe somewhere.

And you had better get used to quantum mechanics being scientific fact since all your creature comforts rely on it, including your computer.

fuzoid wrote:And it appears you missed the gist entirely once again. Of course there is no scientific explanation because it is as I said, science does not have the tools to formulate a theory at this time! This does not mean that it never will. The parapsychological can be studied through the scientific method providing it had the right tools. Period! So I suggest you get over it. As for wishful thinking, hope and faith, you need it a lot more than I do with all the pseudoscience and fraudulent doctors you cite as your sources and evidence.

xamuyees wrote:You know what, I was nice and gave you facts and proofs that you lacked yet you discarded them as bogus and fraudulent. My suggest to you is don't look at or read them. If you do you will be lying and cheating yourself and the world.

Let's review your facts; 1) A visitor center in Turkey for some Noah's Ark park. 2) A Noah's Ark tourist park in China. 3) A fraudulent scientist with a fake and worthless PhD who also happens to be in prison for tax evasion. 4) The movie The Entity. The only possible legitimate researcher you mentioned was Dr. Taff. And I don't know enough about him to comment. However, I do plan on learning a little more about him so I can judge for myself from an informed position. Something you appear not to be willing to do yourself.

Let an ignorant be an ignorant.

For once I agree with you.

As for me, I don't have wishful thinking. I have enough evidences and reasons.

Yeah, you go on believing that. <chuckle>

fuzoid wrote:Oh, and you never did bother to explain what point you were trying to make by bringing the parapsychological into the equation. Please do.

xamuyees wrote:Why would I? May be you did have a clue, the clue of not having a clue.

Why should you? To support your position? To lend a little credibility to your arguments? I don't know, why don't you tell me why you refuse to support your arguments, I'm not a mind reader!

fuzoid wrote:Since movies seem to be a source that you rely on for your evidence, then picture it similar to The Matrix, minus the robots and human batteries. You are living a life of illusion that, similar to The Matrix, might have been programmed. For all you know, we are nothing more than computer code being played out on some mainframe somewhere.

Not a movie, it's called "Documented evidence." You see yourself living a life of illusion similar to The Matrix, not me. I live a real life. This is another problem you have. We are not like computers with programs and codes, but don't take my word for it, see for yourself. "We underestimated how sophisticated the brain is. The brain is a learning machine. It rewires itself after learning a task. Computer can't do that" said Dr. Kaku. (in the 5th minute):

However, I do plan on learning a little more about him so I can judge for myself from an informed position. Something you appear not to be willing to do yourself.

What? you can't be serious. I've got my science degree over a decade ago and am aware what science has to say about life. I have not yet point out the flaws of those theories you've supported, but as Dr. Taff said, theories are speculations at best. Dr. Kaku said every physics text book on earth is now wrong (at 3:45 minute):


With all these flaws yet you still believe it. Soon they will adapt something like "God Theory."
It seems to me that the more you argue the more mistake you make and the more idiotic you look. Sorry, but I have break it to you.

Why should you? To support your position? To lend a little credibility to your arguments? I don't know, why don't you tell me why you refuse to support your arguments, I'm not a mind reader!

Why should I repeat myself? If you're an intelligent person you shouldn't have missed it unless your perception of your intelligent level was just an illusion.