Fact:
Throughout history , there has hardly been a time without war somewhere.
http://www.warscholar.com/Timeline.html

The Cold War has been referred to by many reputable people as WW III.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Wars

Currently .The War On Terror.(called WW IV by some)

1.The war initiated by the U.S in the Middle East in Afghanistan.
2.The subsequent initiation of war in Iraq.
3.The end of Musharaffs rule and conditions in Pakistan, which based upon criteria used in the past could lead to more war.
4.Event's in Soviet Georgia/South Ossetia,with the posturing that has begun."ditto"
5.The.......uh huh um hold on... why don't I just , ...do this , a lot less typing.Without my spin .

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... index.html

, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ongoing_conflicts

, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wa ... %93current

, http://www.intute.ac.uk/socialsciences/ ... ?id=120186

, http://www.123world.com/wars/

, http://www.historyguy.com/american_mili ... story.html

, http://www.history.navy.mil/wars/index.html

, http://militaryhistory.about.com/od/cur ... flicts.htm

, http://www.historyguy.com/current_wars.html

Opinion:

We don't get newsreels and good old "nicknames" for the soldiers fighting conflicts anymore as in WW I and II.

I'd say people who have died in the lists of the conflicts and wars throughout history, and from WW I onward would claim and even fight over the

technicality that the World ,

in fact,
is,

and has been,

at War.


After the first thousand yrs or so of the current, most recent, recorded human history, and given the Symbols used during world history in as far as Iconic representations of countries and regions go, I don't think it takes prophets to forecast that war would occur......somewhere.

Just predict one every 10-100 yrs and associate it with Eagles ,Lions ,Tigers and Bears !Oh My ! .

Fact:
Benjamin Franklin wanted to establish the Turkey as the national U.S symbol, a much more common animal and representative of the country and U.S people he felt ,at the time, as compared to the (even then ) rare, solitary and carrion robbing Eagle. But Nostrodamus nor other prophet's throughout history knew about Turkeys so, guess what.

Opinion:

It does not pay a prophet to be too specific. ___ Heinlein you're right,

or the people that want you to believe in prophecy and prophets.__isomer13 .

Is an event that on the outside seems to fulfill prophecy truly in fulfillment of prophecy,or is it manipulation?....... did "god" need the help of the Axis or the Allies in fullfilling prophecies.(think turkeys here) It seems reasonable to me that if there was a god and he wanted us to believe in his power then some prophecies that were so accurate and impressive that it would be undeniable would have been...I don't know..beneficial...and a REAL example of divine godly power.Like predicting an event. Explain some unfakable event...specific,no room for manipulation or help from man. Accurracy involving milliseconds, or at least a month or two,c'mon ,it's god(S).

Opinion drawn from fact and based in fact:

If ancient societies speak of things and properties of the universe that it had no way of knowing and performed impossible feats ,is it then: coincidence ? blind luck ? or something else? We can pick up the 1,000 ton or so hand hewn stones at Baalbek with todays cranes(contrary to popular belief). But thats it, we couldn't move them without a track system in place and those cranes aren't designed for tracks . The tracks themselves would be monumental. We laugh at them for performing human sacrifice and draw from that the conclusion that it was just savage luck that they knew the circumference of the earth,could calculate the precession of the planets within this galaxy the constellations etc... . It was accurate both in restrospect to the past and the future in terms of being specific AND its something that cannot be manipulated by man(dimensions of the earth and astronomical observations).

It seems some ancient civilizations whose religions have died, went to extraordinary lengths to construct edifices incorporating and illustrating principles that even time would have a hard time erasing.The reason. Just proof of undeniable knowledge and accuracy.Without relying on prophecy, help from Hitler or Jesus Christ ┞¢ ® . I wonder why.

It's not prophecy to predict the position of planets a year from now or 10,000 yrs from now, or 20,000 yrs in the past. It's science.
Ninhursag is not science . Quetzalcoatl is not science.They are gods ....ie: myth or legend .

But some of the knowledge those cultures possessed regardless of the gods they worshipped and the people they sacrificed is based in science.Intricate science.
Predicting a planet (or persons) will return on an unknown date or regular basis without some sort of proof or basis is prophecy and or myth.

If it can be proven or substantiated by knowledge, fact , or evidence, it can then with scientific methods or from conclusion be based in reason with a high probability of being entirely possible.

I don't know..., things that eons after it was constructed containing scientific principles and the builders had(essentially) dissappeared from memory or translation, didn't require a prophet to predict, speaks something more powerful than any god ever has.
"LOOK HERE , we have something for you to OBSERVE, we leave it up to you to DEFINE ,EVALUATE AND APPLY."
In a language that will withstand the test of time across all language barriers . Stone, Landmarks and Geometry. In reality a pictographic, geographic and mathematic system.Just like on an Interstate (Male and Female symbols )/ exit 23/ 1.2 miles.They left it, WE proved it during archaeological survey of sites and some mathematical wiz went "wow, when you add the outer dimensions of sides a,b,c,d you get the circumference of the earth . Additionally the positions of these symbols directly relate to modern scientific fact only verified in the 20th century..."on and on and on Independently verified by Universities, Scientists and others, don't take my word for it. Look them up.

Just my spin:

My point here is If we separate interpretation and belief and just use what we know as fact, understood as valid and useable..then really they could kill a virgin a day ,and I might think that was harsh or savage. But damn them savages knew thier astronomy/mathematics , and thier monolithic construction skill is amazing beyond comprehension ,wow, they understood that they stood in the middle of the precession and that X amount of yrs ago this is where by calculation a particular point in the sky was or would be etc... .

Please take the time to look through the links provided and read what I am trying to convey before you label me one way or another. I could care less what you label me really.I think you'll see that I'm a relatively open minded and fair person...if you want to rip me a new ass and claim what I've said is bullshit, then the ball's in your court .

Prove me wrong.Because if you do, I still have learned.

As long as we fight amongst ourselves we will always be divided, and continue to "buy in" to what governments , authorities and others tell us in vague terms is the ** dance ** of the day or the future ,this confusion will continue and we'll do this until we don't

**dance** for them anymore.


Don't get me wrong , I like to dance, theres lots of dances, everybody dances, some better than others.

I'm 45. ** time dance **
Former veteran of the U.S Army 1983-1987. ** war dance **
I'm gonna live till I die. ** life dance **
Abductee/inductee/practitioner of Christianity from roughly 30 seconds after I was born till 1985. ** atheist dance **
Who can say what will or will not happen in the future? I can , anyone can,make an reasoned ,informed, educated guess. ** non prophet dance **
Studying the past to know and understand what has happened in the past, but not everything. ** historical dance **
Ancient and Modern peoples have detailed varied information,some possible, and some impossible,given the data. ** scientific dance **
But there's other data and it sometimes can be impossible to prove ,or to disprove . ** open minded dance **
"You're only aware of what you're aware of" ** philisophical dance **
Do I like to hear myself talk? , no, but I think others sometimes should. ** ego dance **
Do I know everything?, no, but there's no stopping me from trying. ** knowledge dance **
How much do I know? not alot . ** humble dance **
Everything that remains after the elimination of belief. ** reality dance **

Avoiding this next one can be difficult.

Some people in authority will tell you anything,using lies, illusion, force, and derision to control you, and some people simply accept and

believe it.
** sheep dance **

Wow, dude. That was an awesome read!

Mental control is much easier with neurones destructing medecine, annihilation your wiil:

http://www.dailymotion.com/related/x48c ... -16_events

http://www.dailymotion.com/related/x2em ... -26_events

http://www.dailymotion.com/related/x2em ... 6_politics

http://www.dailymotion.com/related/x2em ... 6_business

http://www.dailymotion.com/related/x2en ... hiatrie-fr

http://www.dailymotion.com/related/x2em ... 6_politics

Guest wrote:Wow, dude. That was an awesome read!

Stop copying my name, will you?

Your best friend,
Guest.

I dont undersand the connection between all these links, and the 2012 prophecy, what does the history of war have to do with 2012, the mayan prophecy is about astronomy not war, 2012 is the end of a 26800 year galactic cycle, on dec. 21 2012 the earth and sun and the center of the milky way will be in perfect alignment, an event which occurs every 26800 years, I really have no Idea what your point is..... what are you trying to say?

My point in respect to war was that wars and rumours of wars is often a central theme withinin end of the world scenarios.I find it convienient that we(humans) have more or less been in a constant state of war.Only in recent times have we been able to become aware on a worldwide scale that this is the state of things.Everywhere.... .Years ago regionally fought wars were widely spoken of and the context of a (small world) was very relevant. "Have you heard of the wars and rumours of war?" ..."yes they are everywhere"(small locality).So it was relative easy for a local prophet to use war as proof of validity,it's used by the world wide prophets too.I think they(prophets ) are very aware of this easy to manipulate fact.Throw in some commonly used tribal/national power symbols and it can be far reaching without specific knowledge .Plus if you get enough followers you just might start a religion and the prophecies can become self sustaining and then other facets of human fears,tendencies and peculiarities can be prophectically predicted,relying on the venerated prophets of antiquity(unquestionable,infallible) with no contemporary prophets needed.

I used war as a starting point of illustration.(imagine that)

The overall point being. Intelligent people who understand humans and want to control , have no problem using the human condition as a tool to forecast and predicate what can be expected that we are experiencing at any given point.Without being specific. Trends . Followers(sheep) always make up the largest component of a culture or civilization. It's the belief of the sheep that determines what is accepted as knowledge by the sheep . BELIEF . Control the beliefs.....and... .It makes it hard on the rest of us to discover, inquire about or verify knowledge because it's riddled with belief.

We,(the rest of us) have to be very discerning in order to sift through the beliefs to find the facts.Belief can contain fact.Fact doesn't contain belief .There are many facts surrounding ->>>>---------2012->.And many beliefs too.(notice iconic use of arrow)

***gyrates to the sound of war drums, looking to the heavens for the foretold falling star***

Do not misread , or take from this that I am ridiculing or making light of a subject that compels me to investigate looking for information .I wouldn't become a member or contribute anything if I felt that it was a meritless endeavor.I figure there is a cross section of people here with a wide and varied knowledgebase and hope to learn or access information,viewpoints and ideas that aren't possibly available so we can ultimately increase our own understanding and make a reasoned opinion and act or not ,upon that.

Thinking is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.

** looks at the moron in the bushes cloaked in approved mindset **

that was a baa dass read...kudos!

What if there is a prophecy or prediction that has been wiped out lost or supressed in the historical record that told us exactly what to expect?

Comfort Eagle wrote:What if there is a prophecy or prediction that has been wiped out lost or supressed in the historical record that told us exactly what to expect?

well uh.....commence the jigglin!