On the level 6 or whatever, surely a Dummy run helps in the long run, being as it demonstrates the shortfalls of a response, and hopefully when the real Pandemic gets a go on, they will have a much better response, as most of the glitches should have been ironed out.
Practice makes perfect!

Fool wrote:

If the presence of contaminants in the/a vaccine make it so that you're mentally challenged for the remainder of your life, was it worth it?
http://www.drcarley.com/Science_of_vaccine_damage.pdf

Now, if it was your choice to get the vaccine, or not, and you knew of the dangers, which were fully disclosed to you prior to the jab, then... OK, but, what if you didn't have the choice and were forced and as such the dangers were not disclosed. What then?

The link didn't have anything to do with people being mentally challenged for the rest of their life. It seemed to be about dogs' immune systems having a bad reaction to the vaccines. And even then, it seemed to refrain from showing any actual data.
For the record, I don't think people should be forced to take vaccines, but not because I believe there is any significant health risk.

What I'm saying is, your body can be the mechanism that mutates the virus, that you didn't have it in the first place, and only got it once it was introduced to your system unnaturally, by way of a jab, then, you unknowingly spread it to others by being a carrier of a potentially new and perhaps now a deadly strain.

The whole point of a vaccine is to inject a dead or severely weakened version of a given disease into the body so the immune system can build up antibodies. A vaccine is designed for your body to be able to defeat the virus. Now, this is a blatant ad hominem, but your use of the word "unnatural" leads me to believe that your anti-vaccininess is based more on emotion than fact. As for me, I am very pro-vaccines because I know that they have been a key factor in controlling disease.
Anyway, feel free to show me some kind of study comparing people who have taken vaccines to those who haven't and comparing life expectancies.

Btw, my "insane anti-vaccine idiots" phrase was designed to draw people out. Seems to have worked

Yes it did raise a hair or two on the back of my neck.

In response, I think vaccinations are a necessary evil. I do not think we are there yet with respects to a little jab will do you no harm. I am a firm believer in the bodies ability to fend for itself. I am not a firm believer in big corporations and the pharmaceutical industry unless they are kept in check by government. What I see is the US Congress being the best rubber stamp congress money can buy. That I do not think is a necessary evil, yet one we are expected to endure.

By :unnatural" I was simply meaning unnatural entry into our bodies (by way of a jab).

I pointed to the vaccine testing in animals more so to show how I think the system works in a detached manner rather than in human studies.

There is a lot of evidence to show that vaccines do more harm than good and that in and of itself requires some pause. So, if you don't need to get one, chances are best that you do not. Here is some evidence --> http://www.mpwhi.com/references_proving_vaccines_are_deadly.htm

Catnip wrote:On the level 6 or whatever, surely a Dummy run helps in the long run, being as it demonstrates the shortfalls of a response, and hopefully when the real Pandemic gets a go on, they will have a much better response, as most of the glitches should have been ironed out.
Practice makes perfect!

The only trouble with that is next time around when and if there is a real pandemic why would we listen if we thought It was just another one of those test of the emergency response teams?

Gembird wrote:

ET wrote:What we need to look at in the WHO Flu situation currently being faced is did the problem occur naturally? Shall we follow the money??

Baxter vaccine patent for H1N1 was filed two years before pandemic. How odd. Someone must have a crystal ball. Follow the links for more detail.
http://ahrcanum.wordpress.com/2009/07/23/baxter-vaccine-patent-h1n1/

The H1N1 strain of the flu was first discovered during 1918 when it was known as "Spanish Flu" and killed 50 million + people worldwide. So the authorities have been working on a vaccine and treatment since then.

Since then, "Spanish Flu" has more recently been known as Avian Flu and now Swine Flu. These are simply mutations of the H1N1 strain of the flu virus.

The 1918 virus pandemic was the direct result of TYPHUS FEVER VACCINES injected into 23 millions of soldiers during the Great War (WWI). John D. Rockefeller labs and factories in China produced these Typhus vaccines in 1916 by harvesting pus from infected humans, injecting the infectious matter into pig hosts, then mixing the harvested contaminants into chicken egg albumin to be injected into human hosts as a “vaccine”.

RNA from a victim of the 1918 pandemic was isolated from a formalin-fixed, paraffin-embedded, lung tissue sample. Nine fragments of viral RNA were sequenced from the coding regions of hemagglutinin, neuraminidase, nucleoprotein, matrix protein 1, and matrix protein. The sequences are consistent with a novel H1N1 influenza A virus that belongs to the subgroup of strains that infect humans and swine, not the avian subgroup. (Science Magazine 03-21-97)

Dr. Jeffrey Taubenberger (was on project) identified the 1918 killer virus as a “novel” (new) swine flu that “recombined” avian (H5N1) as well as human (H3N2) virus fragments in its RNA structure. Taubenberger used a complex computer program to perfectly match the RNA and DNA structures, and then successfully replicated and “resurrected” the 1918 killer flu as a powerful biological weapon in 2003, 6 years later.

ET wrote:Here are two of the best sites that I've found on the WHO Flu...

Let's not call it the WHO Flu since you have not proven your case. It is known as H1N1 and this is how I will identify it.

THE H1N1 SWINE FLU PANDEMIC
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=newsHighlights&newsId=46
You will find tons of information from independent journalists that it is being hosted in Canada.

While this site does seem to be official and thorough, here's the problem with it, it is still a conspiracy site. The first link I clicked on, Is Swine Flu A Biological Weapon?, brought me to an article lifted from prisonplanet.com, a known conspiracy site. So I have to assume the majority of the links will similarly be from other conspiracy sites.

To refer to a conspiracy site as evidence would be the same as claiming the Bible proves itself. Just as the Bible cannot be proof for itself, neither can a conspiracy site be considered as proof for itself regardless how many articles were lifted from other conspiracy sites. This is not to say there are not legititmate articles on the site. But since the intent of a conspiracy site is to convince others of a conspiracy, any legitimate articles would more than likely be misconstrued, misused, and misinterpreted to fit whatever the conspiracy theory.

THE FLU CASE
http://www.theflucase.com/
This is the best daily archive site I've found on the topic.

As pointed out previously, this is also a conspiracy site. As mentioned, while I admire Jane Burgermeister for taking on Baxter International, her conclusions are based on conjecture and not on any known evidence. Occam's Razor states the simplest explanation is usually the correct one. And the simplest explanation seems to be that there was a severe case of negligence and gross incompetence on the part of Baxter International employees. The alternative would be a vast worldwide conspiracy that could never be covered up. I'm siding with Occam on this one.

fuzoid
http://www.live365.com/stations/fuzoid

In response, I think vaccinations are a necessary evil. I do not think we are there yet with respects to a little jab will do you no harm. I am a firm believer in the bodies ability to fend for itself. I am not a firm believer in big corporations and the pharmaceutical industry unless they are kept in check by government.

How would you feel about the government directly manufacturing and distributing the vaccines?

fuzoid wrote:

ET wrote: Here are two of the best sites that I've found on the WHO Flu...

Let's not call it the WHO Flu since you have not proven your case. It is known as H1N1 and this is how I will identify it.

ET wrote:THE H1N1 SWINE FLU PANDEMIC
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=newsHighlights&newsId=46
You will find tons of information from independent journalists that it is being hosted in Canada.

While this site does seem to be official and thorough, here's the problem with it, it is still a conspiracy site. The first link I clicked on, Is Swine Flu A Biological Weapon?, brought me to an article lifted from prisonplanet.com, a known conspiracy site. So I have to assume the majority of the links will similarly be from other conspiracy sites.

To refer to a conspiracy site as evidence would be the same as claiming the Bible proves itself. Just as the Bible cannot be proof for itself, neither can a conspiracy site be considered as proof for itself regardless how many articles were lifted from other conspiracy sites. This is not to say there are not legitimate articles on the site. But since the intent of a conspiracy site is to convince others of a conspiracy, any legitimate articles would more than likely be misconstrued, misused, and misinterpreted to fit whatever the conspiracy theory.

I am glad to see that you can still see some value in these sites as some of them do contain legitimate articles. Independent journalists will put a spin on their story, as do the major news networks. It is up to the reader to take what they can use and leave the rest behind. I did not want to get into the conspiracy theories to much on this topic and it certainly would have been easy to do so, however, at this point in time, I'd rather not have the perceived role how would you call it, oh yes, of a fearmonger. So even a conspiracy nut can have a leash!

I would like to offer something up with respect that the Bible cannot be proof for itself. From my limited understanding, the validity comes through prophecy. It has to fulfill itself, if it is the truth. At least this is what I've gathered from those that talk of such things.

fuzoid wrote:

ET wrote:THE FLU CASE
http://www.theflucase.com/
This is the best daily archive site I've found on the topic.

As pointed out previously, this is also a conspiracy site. As mentioned, while I admire Jane Burgermeister for taking on Baxter International, her conclusions are based on conjecture and not on any known evidence. Occam's Razor states the simplest explanation is usually the correct one. And the simplest explanation seems to be that there was a severe case of negligence and gross incompetence on the part of Baxter International employees. The alternative would be a vast worldwide conspiracy that could never be covered up. I'm siding with Occam on this one.

OK. What about Baxter (also involved -in all fairness- included Armour Pharmaceutical Company, Bayer Corporation and its Cutter Biological division, Baxter International and its Hyland Pharmaceutical division and Alpha Therapeutic Corporation) knowingly infecting hemophiliac patients with the HIV virus? Occam's Razor states the simplest explanation is usually the correct one. And the simplest explanation seems to be that there was a severe case of negligence and gross incompetence on the part of Baxter International employees. So, they were told by US Congress they could no longer sell the tainted product in the States. It was however ok to sell it to other countries. Which they did to "use up stocks" of the old medicine before switching to its "safer, better" product. Gross incompetence becomes knowingly, willfully real real fast when the bottom line is all that is of importance. How did this happen? When did we take the wrong turn as a race? This is how there is fuel for conspiracies, when some start to feel\think that others' are against the general welfare of the population.

BTW, how many oops'zzz do these company get?? And this leads me to one of my points. Why is that allowed? You want to be in the industry, then, there are no mistakes that put anyone at risk or your license to conduct operations is revoked. IMO It needs to be that cut and dry.

Fool wrote:

In response, I think vaccinations are a necessary evil. I do not think we are there yet with respects to a little jab will do you no harm. I am a firm believer in the bodies ability to fend for itself. I am not a firm believer in big corporations and the pharmaceutical industry unless they are kept in check by government.

How would you feel about the government directly manufacturing and distributing the vaccines?

I would feel more comfort in that solution (for vaccines) than publicly trading pharmaceutical corporations for sure.

The WHO's definition of a pandemic changed in 2003, widening it from a definition of a worldwide killer to one that encompasses worldwide cases of a disease, and not necessarily large numbers of deaths.

The WHO's old definition of a pandemic encompassed a new strain of the virus appearing against which the human population has no immunity, resulting in several, simultaneous epidemics worldwide with enormous numbers of deaths and illness.

The older definition I agree with. The newer one is a bit relaxed in consideration to what the world governments need to do in a "Level 6" pandemic situation.

Any thoughts people?

Here is an interesting opinion that appeared in The Philadelphia Inquirer.

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/opinion/20090902_Flu_forecast_is_based_on_suspect_data.html