Fool wrote:

They may say they follow Him but for the most part, they don't believe what he said.

No, they just don't have the same beliefs as you. Catholics are christian, period. After all, you can be a christian even without treating the bible as the word of God. The only requirement is that you believe Jesus was the son of god, and rose from the dead.

Fool Wrote:

The only requirement is that you believe Jesus was the son of god, and rose from the dead.[/quote]



Incorrect.
Using your logic. The Devil and his demons qualify to be christians.
The Catholic doctrine on the person of Christ is biblical and true. But doctrinal orthodoxy is not sufficient by itself. For salvation, it is not enough to give your assent to the truths about Christ - even the demons recognized Jesus as the Son of God. More than accepting the doctrines on Christ as true, the sinner must also entrust himself to Him. The Christian does not merely believe something about Christ; the Christian believes in Christ.


Jesus Christ is the one and only Saviour, and therefore our faith must be exclusively in Him alone. St Peter underlines this fundamental truth, saying: "Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved" (Acts 4:12).

Sadly, Roman Catholic piety leads many Catholics to turn their eyes from Jesus towards Mary. They still "believe in Jesus", of course, yet their heart is not reassured. They apply to someone else. “St John Damascene had no hesitancy in addressing our Lady in these words: Pure and immaculate Queen, save me, and deliver me from eternal damnation. St Bonaventure called Mary the salvation of those who invoke her” (The Glories of Mary, St Alphonsus Liguori).

If you were a Catholic, you have to choose between the advise of the Catholic saint, who tells you to invoke the name of Mary for salvation, and the inspired words uttered by the apostle Peter, who solemnly warns that Jesus is the only name given among us whereby we must be saved.

Though the Roman Church formally acknowledges that Christ offered a sacrifice "once for all", yet it also teaches that the sacrifice of Christ is carried on, perpetuated and renewed daily during the mass. It is significant that a crucifix is placed over the main altar in Catholic churches, reminding the people that Christ is being offered as a sacrifice for sin during the mass.
The need to renew and perpetuate the sacrifice implies that the work of Christ on the cross of Calvary was not sufficient to take away sin.The Catholic faith teaches that Jesus' work on the Cross is not finished. Christians believe that by one sacrifice He has accomplished eternal redemption for His people.


A mountain climber is stranded on a ledge. A rope is lowered from the rescue helicopter hovering above. He grabs the rope with one hand, but with the other hand he keeps holding on firmly to the rock. His trust in the rescuers is as good as no trust at all. Unless he lets go of everything and latches onto the rope, he cannot be saved.

Most Catholics do not fully trust in Jesus for complete salvation.

I'd like to point out that as with any poll interpreting the results are many times, subjective.
You could...look at the results and draw from them that the two headings are representative of atheist's and agnostics

"None of them", could be seen as atheist.
"How could we possibly know?", could be seen as agnostic.

I'm not saying they are.
They could be... maybe not.
Nevertheless, if you total those two together, it seems reason is in the lead, at any rate.

Using your logic. The Devil and his demons qualify to be christians.

Believe it or not, I did actually think that. The next thing I thought was, what the hell, they don't exist. Humans that 'believe in Jesus' are nearly always christians. But for the sake of accuracy, some kind of devotion to Jesus and/or his teachings is also required.

For salvation...

It's not about whether it works or not. You're not trying to say every single christian gets into heaven based entirely and only on faith, are you? Even those that are unrepentant for their sins? Would a christian that goes around blowing up orphanages go to heaven if he/she just asked for forgiveness afterwards? And then did it again?
The point you seem to be making is that catholics are not christians because they're not getting into heaven. However, that doesn't really have much to do with whether they are actually christian or not. They think their faith is correct, just as you do. I'm sure there are catholics that could dredge up a bible verse that supports their own position. Anyway, catholics are still christians. Period (again).

Fool wrote:The only requirement is that you believe Jesus was the son of god, and rose from the dead.

Bassman3223 wrote:Incorrect

Fool is 100% correct.Within that construct if you believe jesus was the son of god, and rose from the dead, then you accept all other parts of the bible.

Bassman3223 wrote:Using your logic. The Devil and his demons qualify to be christians.

You're wrong here, your thinking is flawed because according to the construct, jesus died for mans sins.End of story.
You should try using logic.You wouldn't make these errors.Belief does that.You tried using Fool's logic which was obviously beyond your scope.

Bassman3223 wrote:The Catholic doctrine on the person of Christ is biblical and true. But doctrinal orthodoxy is not sufficient by itself. For salvation, it is not enough to give your assent to the truths about Christ - even the demons recognized Jesus as the Son of God. More than accepting the doctrines on Christ as true, the sinner must also entrust himself to Him. The Christian does not merely believe something about Christ; the Christian believes in Christ.


Jesus Christ is the one and only Saviour, and therefore our faith must be exclusively in Him alone. St Peter underlines this fundamental truth, saying: "Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved" (Acts 4:12).

Sadly, Roman Catholic piety leads many Catholics to turn their eyes from Jesus towards Mary. They still "believe in Jesus", of course, yet their heart is not reassured. They apply to someone else. “St John Damascene had no hesitancy in addressing our Lady in these words: Pure and immaculate Queen, save me, and deliver me from eternal damnation. St Bonaventure called Mary the salvation of those who invoke her” (The Glories of Mary, St Alphonsus Liguori).

If you were a Catholic, you have to choose between the advise of the Catholic saint, who tells you to invoke the name of Mary for salvation, and the inspired words uttered by the apostle Peter, who solemnly warns that Jesus is the only name given among us whereby we must be saved.

Though the Roman Church formally acknowledges that Christ offered a sacrifice "once for all", yet it also teaches that the sacrifice of Christ is carried on, perpetuated and renewed daily during the mass. It is significant that a crucifix is placed over the main altar in Catholic churches, reminding the people that Christ is being offered as a sacrifice for sin during the mass.
The need to renew and perpetuate the sacrifice implies that the work of Christ on the cross of Calvary was not sufficient to take away sin.The Catholic faith teaches that Jesus' work on the Cross is not finished. Christians believe that by one sacrifice He has accomplished eternal redemption for His people.

Are you aware of the word conjecture?
Noun : conjecture {kuhn-jek-cher}
1. A hypothesis that has been formed by speculating or conjecturing (usually with little hard evidence).
"he dismissed it as mere conjecture"
2. A message expressing an opinion based on incomplete evidence.
3. Reasoning that involves the formation of conclusions from incomplete evidence.
Verb : conjecture{kuhn-jek-cher}
1.To believe especially on uncertain or tentative grounds.

Bassman3223 wrote:A mountain climber is stranded on a ledge. A rope is lowered from the rescue helicopter hovering above. He grabs the rope with one hand, but with the other hand he keeps holding on firmly to the rock. His trust in the rescuers is as good as no trust at all. Unless he lets go of everything and latches onto the rope, he cannot be saved.

This would be great as an aid to teach people to trust in emergency situations involving real life elements, except in a helicopter rescue there is a harness or litter, placed about your body and you are securely lifted to safety.
I do get the attempt at using a desperate situation to illustrate the need or give import to your version of christianity.This is a common technique used when a coherent explanation is unable to be put forth about a vague concept and people will try to use a short story using allegory to get you to visualize what they want you to think.As an allegorical story it was lacking the correct elements necessary to draw comparisons.

Bassman3223 wrote:Most Catholics do not fully trust in Jesus for complete salvation.

One more time.
Noun : conjecture {kuhn-jek-cher}
1. A hypothesis that has been formed by speculating or conjecturing (usually with little hard evidence).
"he dismissed it as mere conjecture"
2. A message expressing an opinion based on incomplete evidence.
3. Reasoning that involves the formation of conclusions from incomplete evidence.
Verb : conjecture {kuhn-jek-cher}
1.To believe especially on uncertain or tentative grounds.

That 10 minutes flew by.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.

Fool wrote:Humans that 'believe in Jesus' are nearly always christians.

No, there are many people that believe in the person of Jesus (him as a human in history)but they don't believe that he was God also.

You're not trying to say every single christian gets into heaven based entirely and only on faith, are you?

Good question ! No, the bible clearly explains that faith without action or works is dead. Likewise, good works with out faith is useless.

Would a christian that goes around blowing up orphanages go to heaven if he/she just asked for forgiveness afterwards?

A Christian is a christian in his or her heart. You can usually tell a Christian by how they live there lives as a whole. Sure Christians mess up just as bad as unbelievers do sometimes, this is the reason we are in such need of a Savior like Jesus. But the example you gave is the extreme. Can that sin be forgiven? Yes, technically it can. Chances are better that if that person was truly a Christian before they blew something up, the thought of killing people would not have ever crossed their mind to begin with. It is not for any person to say who will or will not be forgiven with certainty. I understand what you're saying though. All I can tell you is that there is not one unforgivable sin. If a person is truly sorry about something and regret it in their heart, and repent (make a complete u-turn from that behavior) and ask for forgiveness and mean it in their heart, then from what I have studied, I believe God will forgive them. I'm just happy I don't have to make those decisions. Please don't think that someone(a wolf) who calls themselves a Christian (puts on sheep's clothing) and goes through life with reckless abandon, doing what ever feels right at the time; and every Sunday is in church, is necessarily going to heaven. Because people believe and goes to church does not make them a Christian. Just as someone walking into a garage doesn't make them a car. The requirements for heaven, is to: recognize I'm a sinner, that I can't make it to heaven on my own, no matter what I do, to believe that there is only one way into heaven which is through Jesus Christ alone. To put my complete trust in him to get me there. The requirement for a christian is: to recognize I'm a sinner, and will be every day of my life, Jesus was and is the son of God, who died on my behalf for my sins.To live every aspect of my life by using the examples Jesus gave. The christian life is an uphill battle and a life long process, a marathon, not a sprint. If your an unbeliever, don't think that Christians have all the answers, cause we don't, don't believe that we think we are better than anyone else, cause we aren't. If someone says otherwise, ignore them. Christians are like snow covered dung. Thank you Jesus for the snow!!!

Yes, I believe Islam is the true Religion and I'm 100% sure of it and I don't have any doubts on this.

Islam is the right religion, why?
Go here http://islam-peace-brotherhood.blogspot.com/2006/12/end-of-world-signs-stated-by.html

and the end of the world is coming but nobody will know.

Word Ver. http://www.mediafire.com/?djdfgmugzzt

by the way
Jesus (SAW) , Mosa (SAW) and Mohammed (SAW) (there are others) are prophets and ALLAH sent them.

Ahmed wrote:Islam is the right religion, why?
Go here http://islam-peace-brotherhood.blogspot.com/2006/12/end-of-world-signs-stated-by.html

and the end of the world is coming but nobody will know.

Word Ver. http://www.mediafire.com/?djdfgmugzzt

by the way
Jesus (SAW) , Mosa (SAW) and Mohammed (SAW) (there are others) are prophets and ALLAH sent them.

Get real how can you say yours is the true religion ? You must look beyond your teaching and keep and open mind not follow like sheep. You and all faiths were given a message and it was the same one to stop the carnage. To prepare for an encounter yet we all messed up big time. As for all your prophets and yes i believe jesus a prophet {i was brought up r.C.} you and all others were given ground rules to meet a traveler. Look a round you you will see gifted people doing unexplained feats, not normal. I can name them all. These would be the same as your past prophets but a modern example. Anyway there's a lot more, just leave it at that for now. By the way i have noticed mohammed is also spelt muhammad, mohamed and mohammad if one name can change so much over the years what else has changed.

i have noticed mohammed is also spelt muhammad, mohamed and mohammad if one name can change so much over the years what else has changed.

Well, I assume that's because the name was written in arabic, so the names in english are phonetic translations.
Does arabic have a different type of alphabet?

Fool wrote:

i have noticed mohammed is also spelt muhammad, mohamed and mohammad if one name can change so much over the years what else has changed.

Well, I assume that's because the name was written in arabic, so the names in english are phonetic translations.
Does arabic have a different type of alphabet?

What I am trying to say is if one name can get lost in translations what about the rest? Add to this stories handed down over the centuries before anything was written down. As for the likes of bass man and all the rest of you who think your god is the right one, I have one message: go join the lord of light Satan in hell. And for everyone leading good honest lives your energy will go on for you truly are the chosen. good night