First of all there is most certainly one true set of beliefs. This is stated very clearly in the Bible.

However, Christianity has so many faces and modernizations that it is impossible to identify on true group among the thousands. It is beyond question wrong to lump the Catholics and Christians in one category. Praying to idols or statues is without a doubt against the word of God, and yet it is normal fair in Catholicism. Only God can forgive sins, yet priests absolve sin for millions every day. Committing murder and plundering in the name of God or any church is not part of any faith. Yet wars have been fought and genocide with plunder have been wrought upon cultures around the world under the guise of religion or spreading God's word.

The Bible also states that the church will not be going to heaven because it has deceived the people. Why it doesn't come to the forefront that Jesus never once gave a sermon in any temple is mystifying. There are only 2 cultures who have clung to the same beliefs without faltering through out the world's history. They never modernized or altered their beliefs as all other old religions have. Even in the Jewish faith, there are two sects in practice today and both of them aren't right ... only the Orthodox who have never wavered in their teachings or beliefs. The second one would greatly surprise you.

The truth will set you free ... Real 2012 Info

dree wrote:First of all there is most certainly one true set of beliefs. This is stated very clearly in the Bible.

The ironic part of your statement is, it's not the Bible!

However, Christianity has so many faces and modernizations that it is impossible to identify on true group among the thousands. It is beyond question wrong to lump the Catholics and Christians in one category. Praying to idols or statues is without a doubt against the word of God, and yet it is normal fair in Catholicism. Only God can forgive sins, yet priests absolve sin for millions every day.

But yet Catholics follow Christ. Sorry, dree, this makes them Christian regardless what you believe. Besides, you don't get to choose who's Christian and who's not.

Committing murder and plundering in the name of God or any church is not part of any faith. Yet wars have been fought and genocide with plunder have been wrought upon cultures around the world under the guise of religion or spreading God's word.

The irony being, more wars have been fought and more people have died in the name of God than for any other reason.

The Bible also states that the church will not be going to heaven because it has deceived the people.

Why would a church go to heaven? It's a building! Actually, I knew what you meant. And the question still stands. The church is the people. And since each individual is accountable for their own actions, it is not the church that goes to heaven, but the individual.

Why it doesn't come to the forefront that Jesus never once gave a sermon in any temple is mystifying.

Finally, an eyewitness to the life of Jesus. Sorry, the devil made me do it. <grin> Seriously, what does this have to do with anything? What does it matter where Jesus gave his sermons?

There are only 2 cultures who have clung to the same beliefs without faltering through out the world's history. They never modernized or altered their beliefs as all other old religions have.

Really? Are you an expert on history and religions?

Even in the Jewish faith, there are two sects in practice today and both of them aren't right ...

Really? Are you an expert on Judaism?

only the Orthodox who have never wavered in their teachings or beliefs.

And you would be wrong. For the first 500 to 600 years of Christianity, Universal Salvation was the norm. Rome introduced the concept of eternal damnation. Name a single Orthodox church that still believes in Universal Salvation.

The second one would greatly surprise you.

Let me guess, Hinduism. Correct? Or is it Buddhism? Oh, heck, just tell us already.

dree wrote:First of all there is most certainly one true set of beliefs.

Please provide the "true set of beliefs" .

dree wrote: This is stated very clearly in the Bible.

The bible is full of contrdictions.All religions claim to be the one.

dree wrote:However, Christianity has so many faces and modernizations that it is impossible to identify on true group among the thousands.

Over 38,000 different sects within christianity,you are correct. You have to consider that those beliefs you mentioned previously aren't so clear.
But you said there certainly was clarity.

dree wrote:It is beyond question wrong to lump the Catholics and Christians in one category.

The bible that you use ,was compiled by the catholic church(Council of Nicea, others as well). You also just stated it was impossible to "identify" one true group.It works both ways.

dree wrote:Praying to idols or statues is without a doubt against the word of God, and yet it is normal fair in Catholicism. Only God can forgive sins, yet priests absolve sin for millions every day. Committing murder and plundering in the name of God or any church is not part of any faith. Yet wars have been fought and genocide with plunder have been wrought upon cultures around the world under the guise of religion or spreading God's word.

Agree on the war and murdering statement.Have you ever noticed when someone or a group claims the way for "all people", especially a religion, that some people invariably die? I'd add that the bible, when chistians venerate it as they do, is an idol as well , crosses, church buildings, etc...

dree wrote:The Bible also states that the church will not be going to heaven because it has deceived the people.

I'd say that might relate to the false idol concept I just mentioned.I notice huge churches everywhere, but very few christians are seen outside of those churches.

dree wrote:Why it doesn't come to the forefront that Jesus never once gave a sermon in any temple is mystifying.

Well....during the alleged questioning before the "crucifiction",..Jesus lied or told the truth? :"Jesus answered him, I spake openly to the world; I ever taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, whither the Jews always resort; and in secret have I said nothing." -John 18:20 KJV

A lie?....truth?....allegedly the words of a sinless being.(that pesky false witness thing) He just said thats what he did......or maybe ?...

Speaking to his disciples:"To you it has been given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given." - John 13:11

It appears that not only did he speak a falsehood , but also that he was secretive and selective in the things he did speak.

Further jesus secrets :"To you has been given the secret of the kingdom of God, but for those outside everything is in parables, so that they may indeed see but not perceive, and may indeed hear but not understand." -Mark 4:11.

A god has to hide the salvation of man to the masses (humanity).No decoder ring?

Speaking of jesus: "With many such parables he spoke the word to the multitudes as they were able to hear it, he did not speak to them without a parable, butprivately to his own disciples he explained everything." -Mark 4:33-34

No wonder christians are so confused, but I imagine all 38,000+ christian sects claim ultimate authority. Is not being clear in things you say a lie or truth?

dree wrote:There are only 2 cultures who have clung to the same beliefs without faltering through out the world's history. They never modernized or altered their beliefs as all other old religions have. Even in the Jewish faith, there are two sects in practice today and both of them aren't right ... only the Orthodox who have never wavered in their teachings or beliefs.

Are you talking about those faiths after they had incorporated other beliefs and concepts(Babylonian, Egyptian, Assyrian etc...) of other previous religious beliefs? Maybe you refer to judaism when it was polytheistic....much like christianity is today(but only by some of the sects).

dree wrote:The second one would greatly surprise you.

I doubt it.

dree wrote:The truth will set you free ... Real 2012 Info

This link leads to the truth?

AND THE TRUTH ONLY COST'S $49.95!!

And all this time I thought truth was free.

Fool wrote:Science is not a religion because it is based on observable evidence, not faith.

Also,science seeks to disprove itself in the verification of the evidences it does observe, the eventual result being hypothesis/theory becoming fact .

Not at all like religion.

A side thought, if they'd spent the last few thousand years approaching it's(religions) beliefs in such a manner they might actually be beyond beliefs now.

Don't you just love this quote?

“Every Major Religion... Minor Religions You've Never Heard Of... Non-Religious Spiritualists... And Even Atheists And Agnostics Agree...”

I wonder how many atheists/agnostics on this site agree that 2012 = the end...

Wow! If Jesus did not die for my sins, I know I would have no religion. I admire those who have figured out life and death without considering God. Especially those of you who have figured out what really happens when you die. I prefer being wrong/right about Christ and die being wrong/right since no other religion gives me such hope. After suddenly collapsing with a brain tumor 8 months ago, I realize how important it really is to be affirmed about these truths. With a 1% chance of survival, Jesus healed me and now I can confess and testify that He is exactly who scriptures say He is--the Messiah, the King, the Lord of lords, the Saviour. For those who read this, please accept this truth and receive eternal life through Jesus Christ according to His promise.

Jay wrote:Twelve disciples, most of them dying pretty awful deaths rather than deny Jesus as the son of God.

Didn't Peter deny Jesus three times?

But yet Catholics follow Christ. Sorry, dree, this makes them Christian regardless what you believe. Besides, you don't get to choose who's Christian and who's not.

Correction. Catholics don't believe Jesus is who he said he was. This is evident in how they worship today. They worship as if Jesus didn't take our place so that we can speak to God in prayer and be in his presence someday. Catholics and the Bible differ in many ways. They follow Christ as though he was just one of God's great prophets. They may say they follow Him but for the most part, they don't believe what he said.

Bassman3223 wrote:

But yet Catholics follow Christ. Sorry, dree, this makes them Christian regardless what you believe. Besides, you don't get to choose who's Christian and who's not.

Correction. Catholics don't believe Jesus is who he said he was. This is evident in how they worship today. They worship as if Jesus didn't take our place so that we can speak to God in prayer and be in his presence someday. Catholics and the Bible differ in many ways. They follow Christ as though he was just one of God's great prophets. They may say they follow Him but for the most part, they don't believe what he said.

You are simply wrong.
You can't explain what you believe, then you presume to explain what another version of christianity believes.
Go here.
http://www.ancient-future.net/basics.html http://www.justforcatholics.org/a36.htm
http://www.geocities.com/the_spacemouse/outline.html
The more I talk to christians, the more I'm convinced an atheist knows more about christianity than a christian does.
Are you aware there are over 35,000 denominations of christianity across the world? , of which over 6000 are in the U.S ?
I don't expect a answer.
This was the problem during our other conversations within the board and otherwise.
I tried to be as thorough as possible in answering your questions.
For the record, I was of the protestant persuasion as a christian way back when.I get where your catholihate comes from.
It's obvious you aren't catholic at any rate...heh
Who knows, you keep posting like this and whether you want to or not you may answer those questions. <g>



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I can explain it for you, but I can't understand it for you.

They may say they follow Him but for the most part, they don't believe what he said.

No, they just don't have the same beliefs as you. Catholics are christian, period. After all, you can be a christian even without treating the bible as the word of God. The only requirement is that you believe Jesus was the son of god, and rose from the dead.