mr.gold wrote:It takes a greater leap of faith to deny the existence of a Designer than to understand and accept the existence of the Supreme. All I need do to see Him is open my eyes. The mathematics is His language. Jesus Christ is Lord.

Let me first congratulate you for going out on a limb. As a physicist, you are most definitly thinking outside the box of contemporary science. You are definitely a rare breed. Paul Davies would be very proud. However.....

While I agree with your science that our universe is not by chance, I do disagree with your religion. I'll have more to say on this topic later. As one who grew up within Christianity and has studied to be a pastor, I am now NOT a pastor simply because I studied to be one! The evidence just didn't add up, and still doesn't. But I'm getting ahead of myself.

If I have renounced my faith in the Christian religion, or any religion for that matter, on what basis do I maintain a belief in a God, or Higher Power, or whatever you choose to call IT? Consicousness!!! Due to the Multiple Universe theory, I have no problem accepting the scientific POSSIBILITY that our universe did evolve by chance. With the billions of other universes that possibly exist, it only makes sense that one of them would evolve into what we witness today. Nor do I deny the scientific POSSIBILITY that simple life could have evolved from a random complex soup of organics and amino acids. However, none of this explains how consciousness evolved! Just as the two versions of Genesis were a major stumbling block to my faith in religion (for a more realistic interpretation, read Genesis And The Big Bang by physicist and scholar of the Torah, Gerald Schroeder), consciousness is a major stumbling block to the theory of the evolution of intelligence. How is it possible that consciousness can arise from inanimate matter?

On that note, I have a challenge for the atheist. Please explain how consciousness arose from inanimate matter. Is a rock self aware? What about the keyboard you're typing on? On the particle level, we are all made from the same "stuff." So what makes us conscious beings and a rock (or keyboard) not? IMHO, there are only two possible answers. Either there is a God (or IT, or ALL THAT IS, or.... insert your choice here) that is the designer behind our universe (and any others that may exist) or..... the Universe itself is alive, became self aware, and is seriously schizophrenic! In my mind a designer is more believable. But there are spiritual cultures such as Native Americans that do believe in the consciousness of a rock, tree, grass, and everything else in existence. So it's quite possible the answer is BOTH are true! I have no idea? I only have my [non-religious] faith. I would be very curious to read your thoughts on this matter. Please note that I have asked this question of most every atheist I have ever met and I have never received a satisfactory explanation. But, the one answer I do get from their responses is that they are just as dogmatic in their non-belief as the devoutly religious are dogmatic in their belief. And to add fuel to the fire, the existence of a God can be neither proven nor disproven through science. Therefore it is unscientific to claim God does not exist without empirical evidence to back it up.

Back to the topic of discussion. Mr Gold, while I support and defend your right to believe in Jesus as the Christ, there is ample historical evidence that the Jesus story was plagarized from Egyptian and Greek mythology. For example, the parallels between Jesus and the Egyptian god Horus are uncanny. And to a lesser extent, there are also many parallels between Jesus and the Greek god Dionysus. Rather than post all the Horus parallels, you can read them here, http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcpa5.htm. There is additional evidence that Judaism also absorbed elements from Egyptian mythology. Since I'm limited to posting only three urls, you can google this for yourself. As for Jesus, while I do personally believe he existed (as fully human), there are no contemporary documents from his time that speak of his existence. The earliest [historical] documentation of Jesus is in the writings of Titus Flavius Josephus. The only problem with this is, Josephus was born 4 years after the alleged crucifixion of Jesus. Meaning he didn't begin writing his history until well after 70 C.E. Around the same time as the Gospel of Mark, give or take a few years.

My goal is not to destroy your faith in the Christian religion, but rather to force you to think outside the box as you do with physics and science.

As a physicist, I'm sure you're aware of the Holographic Universe Theory. For the benefit of those unfamiliar with the theory, it was first proposed by physicists Gerard 't Hooft and Leonard Susskind and is possibly supported by Alain Aspect's discovery of quantum entanglement. Because of Aspect's findings, physicist David Bohm believes that objective reality does not exist and that our universe, and everything in it, is a hologram. A holographic universe is an unintelligible pattern of interference patterns created by the wave function of all matter of our universe and is intangible until observed. It is only throught the act of observation does our universe take on the tangible aspects we all rely on for our day to day existence (as we understand it). To paraphrase a physicist whose name I don't remember, "If you close the door to a room and no one is in it to observe it, does it cease to exist?" In my mind, no, because it is God who is doing the observing. But if the holographic universe theory is correct and there is no God, then yes, the room would cease to exist as we understand it. And if true, the implications for who and what we are are profound.

The first measureable evidence for a holographic universe may have recently been accidentally discovered. In the January 17-23, 2009, edition of New Scientist magazine, in an article titled, All the world's a hologram, (Our world may be a giant hologram on the web. Go to http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg2 ... ogram.html to read it in its entirety. Be quick though because online articles are quickly archived. And once archived you would need to subscribe for access.), German physicists conducting an experiment called GEO600 in search of gravitational waves may have inadvertently discovered evidence for a holographic universe. Their experiment has been plagued by inexplicable noise and after eliminating all possible sources, the noise remained. Enter physicist Craig Hogan from Fermilab in Batavia, Illinois. Rather than go into great detail, I will briefly quote from the article;

"Of the five gravitational wave detectors around the world, Hogan realised that the Anglo-German GEO600 experiment ought to be the most sensitive to what he had in mind. He predicted that if the experiment's beam splitter is buffeted by the quantum convulsions of space-time, this will show up in its measurements (Physical Review D, vol 77, p 104031). 'This random jitter would cause noise in the laser light signal,' says Hogan. In June he sent his prediction to the GEO600 team. 'Incredibly, I discovered that the experiment was picking up unexpected noise,' says Hogan. GEO600's principal investigator Karsten Danzmann of the Max Planck Institute for Gravitational Physics in Potsdam, Germany, and also the University of Hanover, admits that the excess noise, with frequencies of between 300 and 1500 hertz, had been bothering the team for a long time. He replied to Hogan and sent him a plot of the noise. 'It looked exactly the same as my prediction,' says Hogan."

Although the noise exactly fits Hogan's predictions, no one is jumping on the holographic bandwagon just yet. Further experimentation needs to be performed with more sensitive detectors. But I personally believe the evidence from various theories for a holographic universe is overwhelming. If all the evidence points in a particular direction, then if it walks and quacks like a duck, it's a duck.

If the universe really is a projected hologram, exactly how would you be able to reconcile your Christian faith with a holographic universe? Because if true, consciousness is not a byproduct of the brain, but rather, the brain is a byproduct of consciousness. Meaning we are really disembodied consciousness. And for whatever the reason, we are all living a life of illusion.

Any thoughts?

fuzoid -
http://www.live365.com/stations/fuzoid

Think on a phisical level what actually happens to the body after it faces death. There have been studies that have proven once you die you actually lose weight. Some would argue that it is your 'soul' leaving the body, but since there is no such part called a soul they tested to see what it actually was that was leaving the body. They have stated that it is pure energy.

What empirical scientific evidence do you have that there is no such thing as a soul? Your statement is the same as claiming "God does not exist" without backing it up with empirical scientific evidence. In other words, your statement has no basis in science and can be neither confirmed nor disproven. You claim Mr. Gold's beliefs are a little irresponsible as a grown up but yet you see nothing wrong with making absolute claims with no evidence to back your position. In other words, your position is unscientific and is nothing more than your beliefs (dogma). Do not throw stones when you live in a glass house.

So what do we know about energy? Well as taught in 7th grade phisics energy can change forms and can travel without propultion, but is never lost. Energy never stops it can only be converted to another type of energy. So in a world governed by phisics the only possible way for you to live on after death is through your energy. So after i die i assume im going to travel the world, and see all the great sights minus that last part since phisically i wont be able to see without eyes. Wont be able to feel without a nervous system. Wont be able to experience without a brain.

What if the energy leaving the body is really what is commonly referred to as the soul? What if what science measures is actually an illusion? What if the universe, and everything in it is a hologram? Then all of reality (as we perceive it) is an illusion, including your body. Meaning there is only disembodied consciousness. Why would a disembodied consciousness need eyes to see, a nervous system to feel, and a brain to experience it all? Once again, you are basing your beliefs (dogma) on what you perceive to be objective reality. If holographic in nature, then eyes, the nervous system, and the brain are illusion. And if illusion, by what senses does consciousness perceive? You have no clue and are in no position to be making claims of absolutes without being able to back your position with science.

Think back to before your were born, what it was like. Yea cant remeber that cause you didnt exist back then nor will you after you die.

How do you know? According to some beliefs, we did exist prior to our current life, and specifically chose the life we live for the purpose of growing spiritually. This is a theory that is repeated quite extensively in the book Journey of Souls. It is also the belief of many who experience a Near Death Experience. Hence the belief in reincarnation. And if the soul is energy, which it would have to be if it exists, as you have pointed out, energy can neither be created nor destroyed and converts from one type to another. And if the soul does exist and is energy, then it has always existed and always will. Meaning the theory of reincarnation is plausible.

Its not like your going to be sad that you wont get to see any of your friends or family again cause you wont have a thought process.

I sometimes believe this option is preferable to an eternity of existence. But in my heart I know better.

Now you christians can comeon out and take your swings cause you know if you think about it, its true.

There you go again speaking in absolutes when you have no clue. Not very intelligent for someone with obvious high intelligence. And no, I'm not Christian, nor a member of any other religion.

God is for those who need the courage to face death!

And you know this how? Have you interviewed everyone throughout history with some form of belief in a God? (shaking head in total disbelief)

fuzoid -
http://www.live365.com/stations/fuzoid

Yeah! and if you deep enough into you science you find that there had to be god the big bang didn't just go bang by itself now did it i mean realy things don't happen by themselves.

Actually, it's quite possible that the Big Bang is the result of a quantum fluctuation. Of if string theory is true, two universal branes colliding. The point is, no one knows for sure. And no one, especially scientists, should be speaking dogmatic absolutes without being able to back any of it with evidence. This is why religion is referred to as a faith system, because it can never be proven empirically. But I am with you as I do believe in a Higher Power, God, or whatever you choose to call All That Is.

Actually Hitler was christian.... im not lying, its true

religion can drive people to do wonderful and terrible things... It can make someone a murderer in their god's name, or it can drive them to do something amazing and courageous.

i dont believe in God, or in a one true religion, but friends of mine do, to be honest whether god exists or not wont change the way I act in general, I act how my conciense dictates, and don't follow someone elses set of rules. Anyway, if there is a life after death then thats great, but I don't mind if there is nothing, i hope to leave something behind me when i do die, something good, but even that wont last forever. and if i did live forever after death, id get really really bored after a while!

but stop slaggin off eachothers beliefs, each to his or her own! me and my mates debate but at least we respect eachothers opinions... as to the mayans.... it was a good read!

Scott, you make good points. The fact that the nervous system is responsible for our feelings of pleasure and pain here on Earth is irrelevant in the afterlife. I don't understand how it works and i don't plan to gain that knowledge, i just believe in what i believe. And i think that there has to be purpose and meaning to life than just to die and that's it. Not everyone is lucky enough to have a decent education, or even a roof over their heads. What about those people who were born unlucky and uneducated. There has to be hope for them bro. That's why I have my faith in Jesus. God put Jesus on this earth to wash away our sins and as a mediator between God. Look what Jesus went through at his Crucifixion, the suffering he went through to take the sins of the world and wash them away clean in the name of God. With repentance there is forgiveness if one was to seek and ask for it in the name of Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior. And anyone who denies that he did that for us is slapping God in the face and deserves to be dealt with according to His will. I hope you realize that even without religion, scientifically this world will not last much longer at the rate we are going. Burning of fossil fuels, growing population, droughts, famines, food recalls, increasing greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, the threat of nuclear war, all of which was prophesied in the Bible to be active during the end times. Christianity is responsible for 95% of the blood shed since Jesus left this world after his resurrection. Religion has branched off into so many different doctrines, one has to think it's all propaganda. One who has no faith of course. After all, if they all claim to be the one true religion, then which of those is false. Thats what the devil was put on this earth to do you have to understand that, he hates you, he wants to pull you away from the truth. God loves you enough to send His only Begotten Son into this world to get slaughtered so that you can call on Him to repent of your sins so you will not have to burn in hell for eternity. I'm not trying to convince you, i just want to share with you the power of faith, and the possibilities of feelings through God the Father and Creator of the Heavens and Earth. The pope is the work of the devil, and i think that Barrak Obama just might be the antichrist. God be with us All...

What empirical scientific evidence do you have that there is no such thing as a soul? Your statement is the same as claiming "God does not exist" without backing it up with empirical scientific evidence. In other words, your statement has no basis in science and can be neither confirmed nor disproven. You claim Mr. Gold's beliefs are a little irresponsible as a grown up but yet you see nothing wrong with making absolute claims with no evidence to back your position. In other words, your position is unscientific and is nothing more than your beliefs (dogma). Do not throw stones when you live in a glass house.

The soul is theorised as the immaterial part of the body that contains someones thoughts and personality. Im going to step outside of the boundaries of physics and into the exponential possibilities of quantumphysics. Think of your brain's nerves like a spider web and all the points where the web meets is where they have made shortcuts to access info quicker. When you experience something, in this example im going to use 'someone running', memory is sent through these nerves (via chemicals) to let you know what is happening (that person is running). When you have an experience that should not have happened while you were observing this (the person trips and falls) then these nerves reroute to another possibilty so that the next time you see someone running you could get a thought of someone tripping while running. To put the spider web to use you would be breaking where the web meets and reattaching it to somewhere else. This is how our thought process works. Every experience you have causes this chemical process to take place making it fairly easy to change someones thoughts.

Now in a religion (in this case Cristianity) your soul is what is up for grabs in the eternal fight between God and Satan. Your 'soul' by definition is governed by your experience so you might ask, well how would you have experienced either? Only by what you have heard or read on your own. If you were to read the bible and your first instict is, ok this is fake somebody made this up, then you are wireing that into your brain. Now if after that is there you have an experience that makes you believe in god, most common is life or death, then you reroute that thought process to believe. This process is sure to get crossed many times in a lifetime. Now the problem with this is that a man made life has the same processes as a 'God made life'. Thus meaning that even a life that we create has what would be a soul. In theory if you kept cloning the same life over and over the soul would never die, but that would be impossible considering the fact that the soul is immaterial and could not be transplanted from one to the other. So we are left to wonder if the 'soul' in you would be the same as the soul in your clone after all you would have the same thoughts and personality.

What if the energy leaving the body is really what is commonly referred to as the soul? What if what science measures is actually an illusion? What if the universe, and everything in it is a hologram? Then all of reality (as we perceive it) is an illusion, including your body. Meaning there is only disembodied consciousness. Why would a disembodied consciousness need eyes to see, a nervous system to feel, and a brain to experience it all? Once again, you are basing your beliefs (dogma) on what you perceive to be objective reality. If holographic in nature, then eyes, the nervous system, and the brain are illusion. And if illusion, by what senses does consciousness perceive? You have no clue and are in no position to be making claims of absolutes without being able to back your position with science.

Very well, if i need science to prove that you need eyes to see, a nervous system to feel, and a brain to experience. Case 1. Jhonny gets his eyes poked out by a stick--he can no longer see. Case 2. Julie wrecks her car severs her spinal cord. She can no longer move or feel due to peralisis. Case 3. Jessica has brain failure, she dies. Not that any of that was needed cause of its obviousness. Consciousness is easier to explain than a soul. you can lose consciousness and still live to tell about it. Its being aware that you are real, that you exists. How do you in the same paragraph say that your just an illusion and also bring up consciousness. Thats like proving yourself wrong.

UCMEFLY wrote:Scott, you make good points. The fact that the nervous system is responsible for our feelings of pleasure and pain here on Earth is irrelevant in the afterlife. I don't understand how it works and i don't plan to gain that knowledge, i just believe in what i believe. And i think that there has to be purpose and meaning to life than just to die and that's it. Not everyone is lucky enough to have a decent education, or even a roof over their heads. What about those people who were born unlucky and uneducated. There has to be hope for them bro. That's why I have my faith in Jesus. God put Jesus on this earth to wash away our sins and as a mediator between God. Look what Jesus went through at his Crucifixion, the suffering he went through to take the sins of the world and wash them away clean in the name of God. With repentance there is forgiveness if one was to seek and ask for it in the name of Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior. And anyone who denies that he did that for us is slapping God in the face and deserves to be dealt with according to His will. I hope you realize that even without religion, scientifically this world will not last much longer at the rate we are going. Burning of fossil fuels, growing population, droughts, famines, food recalls, increasing greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, the threat of nuclear war, all of which was prophesied in the Bible to be active during the end times. Christianity is responsible for 95% of the blood shed since Jesus left this world after his resurrection. Religion has branched off into so many different doctrines, one has to think it's all propaganda. One who has no faith of course. After all, if they all claim to be the one true religion, then which of those is false. Thats what the devil was put on this earth to do you have to understand that, he hates you, he wants to pull you away from the truth. God loves you enough to send His only Begotten Son into this world to get slaughtered so that you can call on Him to repent of your sins so you will not have to burn in hell for eternity. I'm not trying to convince you, i just want to share with you the power of faith, and the possibilities of feelings through God the Father and Creator of the Heavens and Earth. The pope is the work of the devil, and i think that Barrak Obama just might be the antichrist. God be with us All...

I know it must seem as if the reason I explain why I disbelieve God is cause I want everybody to turn from their religions and throw away everything that they think they know about it. That is infact not the case. I envy your belief in a loving God, but the knowledge that I have does not alow me to believe it. I have stated in earlier posts that i do believe in a creator, but i have never seen anything to suggest that the creator has attempted to prove itself as a loving being.

The soul is theorised as the immaterial part of the body that contains someones thoughts and personality. Im going to step outside of the boundaries of physics and into the exponential possibilities of quantumphysics. Think of your brain's nerves like a spider web and all the points where the web meets is where they have made shortcuts to access info quicker. When you experience something, in this example im going to use 'someone running', memory is sent through these nerves (via chemicals) to let you know what is happening (that person is running). When you have an experience that should not have happened while you were observing this (the person trips and falls) then these nerves reroute to another possibilty so that the next time you see someone running you could get a thought of someone tripping while running. To put the spider web to use you would be breaking where the web meets and reattaching it to somewhere else. This is how our thought process works. Every experience you have causes this chemical process to take place making it fairly easy to change someones thoughts.

While I do appreciate your input as to how the brain operates and retains memories, it truly is not necessary. I'm not a simpleton. And since you were kind enough to share your thoughts, allow me to make a recommendation. Check out the Holonomic Brain Theory by psychologist Karl Pribram in collaboration with physicist David Bohm. Basically it postulates that the brain encodes memories holographically. Meaning the brain may actually store memories far differently, or in tandem with firing neurons, where the part contains the whole. Go ahead, Google it to see what you come up with.

As for your definition of the soul, since it is only theory, yours is as good as the next. However, the accepted definition does not claim it as the immaterial part of the body. It is recognized as being independent of the body with the body serving as nothing more than a vehicle for the soul during its physical incarnation. And there are also theories that believe the body is a living soul.

Now in a religion (in this case Cristianity) your soul is what is up for grabs in the eternal fight between God and Satan. Your 'soul' by definition is governed by your experience so you might ask, well how would you have experienced either? Only by what you have heard or read on your own. If you were to read the bible and your first instict is, ok this is fake somebody made this up, then you are wireing that into your brain. Now if after that is there you have an experience that makes you believe in god, most common is life or death, then you reroute that thought process to believe. This process is sure to get crossed many times in a lifetime. Now the problem with this is that a man made life has the same processes as a 'God made life'. Thus meaning that even a life that we create has what would be a soul. In theory if you kept cloning the same life over and over the soul would never die, but that would be impossible considering the fact that the soul is immaterial and could not be transplanted from one to the other. So we are left to wonder if the 'soul' in you would be the same as the soul in your clone after all you would have the same thoughts and personality.

Besides your continued explanation as to how the brain operates, you seem to have gotten off track a bit here. But I'll play along. For the sake of argument, let's say one has cloned themselves. Would the clone retain the same soul (if such a thing exists)? If both the donor and the clone are alive at the same time, unless a soul can divide itself and occupy more than one body at a time, the answer would have to be no. However, if the donor was cloned after death, sure, why the heck not? If reincarnation is a reality, there is no reason why a soul could not incarnate in its cloned body if it so chose.

Very well, if i need science to prove that you need eyes to see, a nervous system to feel, and a brain to experience. Case 1. Jhonny gets his eyes poked out by a stick--he can no longer see. Case 2. Julie wrecks her car severs her spinal cord. She can no longer move or feel due to peralisis. Case 3. Jessica has brain failure, she dies. Not that any of that was needed cause of its obviousness. Consciousness is easier to explain than a soul. you can lose consciousness and still live to tell about it. Its being aware that you are real, that you exists. How do you in the same paragraph say that your just an illusion and also bring up consciousness. Thats like proving yourself wrong.

You missed the point entirely. If we do in fact live in a holographic universe, which an awful lot of physics evidence points towards, then this life and universe is nothing more than illusion. It is one huge hologram! If it is illusion, how are we able to experience it? As I've stated previously, a hologram is created using the interferrence patterns of reflected light. In the case of 2D holograms you might find on baseball cards, they were created with lasers. But the universe is an entirely different story. As with photons, matter has a dual nature that is both particle and wave. Matter is in its particle form when being observed and in its wave form when it's not. So if the matter that comprises our universe is wave, it is the interferrence patterns of these waves which encode what we view as objective reality. In the case of 2D holograms, a laser is required to reveal the 3D holographic image. But in the case of the universe, since our bodies are also a part of the wave function, an illusion, per se, then it must be our consciousness that is acting as the laser decoding the interferrence patterns into objective reality. Which also means that our consciousness is truly disembodied. A soul, if you prefer. While this concept may stretch the imagination, it is the only rational explanation if we are truly living in a holographic universe.

At this point I refer you to the physics of Gerard 't Hooft, Leonard Susskin, David Bohm, Paul Davies, Craig Hogan, and a host of other physicists who believe our universe is one gigantic hologram. And since you obviously have a thing for the brain, as mentioned above, I also recommend the holonomic brain theory and the works of Karl Pribram within this discipline.

Happy research!

fuzoid -
http://www.live365.com/stations/fuzoid

P.S. You said the concept of consciousness is easier to explain than the soul. I accept your challenge to explain consciousness. Where does consciousness come from? How did it arise out of inanimate matter? And if there is no God or a soul, does this mean our universe is alive and self aware? You see, Eyeinthesky (no pun intended ), it's not such an easy matter. But if you are able to explain consciousness, then logically the answers to my other questions should fall right into place. Good luck!

As for your definition of the soul, since it is only theory, yours is as good as the next. However, the accepted definition does not claim it as the immaterial part of the body. It is recognized as being independent of the body with the body serving as nothing more than a vehicle for the soul during its physical incarnation. And there are also theories that believe the body is a living soul.

Soul
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In many religions and parts of philosophy, the soul is the immaterial part of a person. It is usually thought to consist of one's thoughts and personality, and can be synonymous with the spirit, mind or self.[1] In theology, the soul is often believed to live on after the person’s death, and some religions posit that God creates souls. In some cultures, non-human living things, and sometimes inanimate objects are said to have souls, a belief known as animism.[2]

Besides your continued explanation as to how the brain operates, you seem to have gotten off track a bit here.

Lol i did get a little carried away with the explanation of how the mind works, im only human.

If we do in fact live in a holographic universe, which an awful lot of physics evidence points towards, then this life and universe is nothing more than illusion.

I shruged this the first time cause i assumed you wanted me to present actuall fact, wanted me to do away with my dogmatic views. So i provided real scientific fact. Things that are tangible, things that go by most of the five sences that most of us use daily. So i have come to the conclusion that you just want my opinion on the holographic theory. While studing this theory is asks more questions than it answers the further you dig. Now im not going to say that it is useless cause it provides what we like to call probability. The assumption that a partical, inanimate object, or even a planet would do something other than what it was when you looked at it is a bit farfetched for me. It falls in that same category that God could have made everything or it could have just happend on its own. For something to notice that your observing it, and make a rational decision to change when you look at it is an animate object.
David Bohm was a very intelligent quantum pysicist, altho i still question some aspects of his theories.

As for consciousness, since you clearly have a different view of what it is. I will share the two different types provided by Wikipedia.org

Phenomenal consciousness: is simply experience; it is moving, coloured forms, sounds, sensations, emotions and feelings with our bodies and responses at the center.
Access consciousness: is the phenomenon whereby information in our minds is accessible for verbal report, reasoning, and the control of behavior.

Last i checked an out of body experience is not considered a conscious state, but to be fair I will once again rely on Wikipedia.org to give the answer.

An out-of-body experience: (OBE or sometimes OOBE), is an experience that typically involves a sensation of floating outside of one's body and, in some cases, perceiving one's physical body from a place outside one's body (autoscopy). The term out of body experience was introduced by Robert Monroe in 1971[1] as a bias-free alternative to belief-centric labels such as "astral projection" or "spirit walking". Though the term usefully distances researchers from scientifically problematic concepts such as the soul, scientists still know little about the phenomenon.[2] One in ten people has an out-of-body experience at some time in their lives[3]. OBEs are often part of the near-death experience, and reportedly may also lead to astral projection. Those who have experienced OBEs sometimes claim to have observed details which were unknown to them beforehand.[4]


Scott-
Astrophisicist-
http://www.cfa.harvard.edu/

Look guys at the end off the day there will always be those who belive in god, and those who dont.

Now i am a non beliver, and untill there is 100% proof thier is no discussion.

You can tell that things are 100% real by touching feeling or hearing something.

This does not mean mentally!!! like you little bible bashers who say that god speaks to me, well sorry to break the news but its just your imagination.

Meaning that your so convinced that he exists that you see and hear things that are not real. Like dehydrating in the desert you see ponds and fun fairs that are not real.

Now i have seen alot off nasty things in my life things that would make most people un able to sleep.

Now if their is a god i would be soo glad not to meet him or have nothing to do with him, because if he has that much power and lets things like that happen, then hes no friend off mine.

And before you say that i will goto hell and get raped by the devil, i really dont care because when i leave here it would only be my soul and since my soul has no nerve's, i wouldnt even feel it so i dont give a F**k Plain-and-Simple !!

Now if your gunna reply reply with 100% proof that god exists, and if you cant then dont reply.