Almost every... "theory" on 2012 can be proved wrong.

If the Mayans were that smart to predict the end of the "world", than how come they got wiped out by Cortez? Hmm.. I guess they didnt predict him coming. The Mayans in the first place were obviously not trying to predict anything. They were just simply writing and calendar and died.

And for Nostradamus... well he's just full of Sh--. You're going to believe some random philosopher when some people don't believe in Jesus? I mean seriously, get over yourselves. Nostradamus was not a super hero. He did not have special powers. He was a regular Human being.

AND, most of these "2012" sites are selling equipment(knives, radios, gas masks, etc.) Why would you need this money if the earth is ending in 3 years? So you can hand it over to a tornado and maybe that tornado wont suck you up? OHH I know, the comet coming down on earth might be in debt and could use that extra cash! Yea!! DUHH.

Yup, and NASA denies the sun entering the middle of the Galaxy. They can also CLEARLY see that there wont be any "comet" heading for earth in the next 3 years.

So... in reality there are no possible ways for the earth to end in 2012. And if it does, it was the work of God, and He is taking those who deserve it to a better place, and leaving the murderers, and other bad people on Earth to burn in Hell.

So believe what you want to believe. Some of you are watching WAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY to much TV.

Yeah ...and the funniest thing of all, is people like you right in the middle of the argument.
The Myans new that mankind can't change the future.
They also predicted their own demise.
Their callender is the most accurate known to man with the most precise calculations.
They knew that on the year 2012 ont 21 st of december that the sun will align in the center of our gallaxy.
On that day the earth's pollarity will shift Creating stress on the earths crust. nobody Knows the degree of devistation that will occur.
And all of this has been proven By science.
This phenominon occurs every 26000 years, Mankind has never experienced this natural change....we havent been here that long.
But we know it happened in the past many times over and earth is still here.
What will happen to us...is mere speculation.

first of all the Mayas did predicted the coming of Cortez he was the white god to them

first learn your history before posting ok

I believe in Jesus and even him for told this happening
read your bible more often

and let this other site make some money dude
everyone needs it

and is not going to be a comet coming
I know that
read bible like i said

we may be watching to much tv but at less he have faith in god
and in our bibles
and are not hating other way of thinking
do some research for your self

Everybodyislying wrote:Yeah ...and the funniest thing of all, is people like you right in the middle of the argument.
The Myans new that mankind can't change the future.
They also predicted their own demise.
Their callender is the most accurate known to man with the most precise calculations.
They knew that on the year 2012 ont 21 st of december that the sun will align in the center of our gallaxy.
On that day the earth's pollarity will shift Creating stress on the earths crust. nobody Knows the degree of devistation that will occur.
And all of this has been proven By science.
This phenominon occurs every 26000 years, Mankind has never experienced this natural change....we havent been here that long.
But we know it happened in the past many times over and earth is still here.
What will happen to us...is mere speculation.

OK for one - the Sun passes about 6 degrees from the Galactic Centre on december 21, EVERY YEAR. The 26 000 yr cycle you refer to is the wobble of the earth on its axis (precession). Tell me - how does that wobble affect the earths position in relation to the sun on a given date? It cant. The earth's orbit would have to alter for the alignment of the sun and the galactic centre to occur. It would have to move out of its current orbit. Like any other year, this will not happen in 2012.
The significance of this date also happens to be when the sun is at its southernmost declination in the sky, or summer solctice if your from the southern hemisphere. That, the mayans worked out quite easily - but seriously, do you expect these people knew what a galactic centre was? Let alone a galaxy! It's plain ridiculous. Especially when a solstice describes it perfectly.
The mayans calender had an error of only 1 day every 128 years. For its time absolutely incredible and I admire their efforts and also their patience.
The modern gregorian calender however has an error of 1 day in 3257 years, plus we have sidereal time which is considered the truest measure of the earths orbital period.
We even added a leap second to last year to account for the earths rotation. That should give you some idea as to how accurate we are now.
As for pole shift - well considering you've predicted it based on the misunderstandings that I have pointed out above, I can see no reason for it happening on 21-12-12. Scientists haven't proven anything about it yet but most agree that the poles shift, but there is nowhere near enough evidence - let alone solid data, that would make it posible to predict when it will happen. For all we know it may be a slow process.
Oh, and any logical person nowadays knows you can't change the future, and predictions of it are best guesses in disguise. 2012 is coming - you'll see for yourself then mate how accurate your theory is.

So yeah....and the funniest thing of all, is people with their facts all messed up starting the 2012 nonsense in the first place

Thought Id say more on my Gregorian calender accuracy comment - so there is no misunderstanding.
The mayans measured the solar year very accuratly, a hair more accurate than the Gregorian in fact. Other civilizations were able to do this as well. Quite easily with a stick or some stone/ measuring concecutive solstices - the mayans weren't alone in this discovery.
But they didn't use this figure for their length of year however (correct me if im wrong but they only expressed whole numbers) so their years ran on 365 day cycles.
So....
Mayan - 32 days of error every 128 years
The Julian (sorry not the mayan) 1 day every 128 years
Gregorian 1 day every 3 257 years

So it wasn't the most accurate calender ever created and of course we are making more precise calculations today (with the added advantage of being able to express numbers to a much higher degree of accuracy)
In fact their solar year as an actuall calculated number (365.22420 days) was calculated by using their records, every 4 years being an extra day/ averaged over hundreds of years to arrive at an accurate estimation of the length of a year. They proberly didnt care about that. The mayans couldn't have realized the true significance of the year - 1 earth orbit.

Keep an eye on our own galaxy then. The Milky Way is bigger than previously estimated. For 2012 pole shift (or whenever) there needs to be a change in the curvature of space and time. Simply put if the galaxy is measured to be more and more massive with extra dark matter we are going to have a transition.

So I will make it simple. The old speed of rotation of our solar system was 500,000 miles an hour. The new speed is 600,000 miles an hour. If time and space is bending the speed will rise to over a million miles an hour in the next few years and the luminosity will be explained through a shift in the spectral lines.

Michael Noonan wrote:Keep an eye on our own galaxy then. The Milky Way is bigger than previously estimated. For 2012 pole shift (or whenever) there needs to be a change in the curvature of space and time. Simply put if the galaxy is measured to be more and more massive with extra dark matter we are going to have a transition.

So I will make it simple. The old speed of rotation of our solar system was 500,000 miles an hour. The new speed is 600,000 miles an hour. If time and space is bending the speed will rise to over a million miles an hour in the next few years and the luminosity will be explained through a shift in the spectral lines.

That is absolutely wrong.
I mean the article is proberly correct.
Put it this way. Say current estimates put our suns orbit around the galaxy at 600 000.
Then tomorrow, the size of the galaxy is recalculated to be larger, so the estimate becomes 700 000.
Our sun's velocity HAS NOT changed.
Our ESTIMATE of the velocity has.
The space time curvature that our galaxy generates HAS NOT changed
Our ESTIMATE of it has.
Simply put, you added your personal speculations to fit into an article about the estimation of the mass of our galaxy. The sun is not going to physically accelerate by over 400 thousand miles in the space of a few years.

ddd wrote:That is absolutely wrong.
I mean the article is proberly correct.

The article from the BBC is from reliable scientific sources. The point is for 2012 to happen requires a different physics from the standard model of physics in use. There are alternatives put forward by no less than Albert Einstein involving worm holes that bring it back into the realm of possibility.

Put it this way. Say current estimates put our suns orbit around the galaxy at 600 000.
Then tomorrow, the size of the galaxy is recalculated to be larger, so the estimate becomes 700 000.
Our sun's velocity HAS NOT changed.
Our ESTIMATE of the velocity has.

Precisely. Our estimate is based on observations made with the standard model that assume equal time for all parts of the universe. Yet time is variable when influenced by gravity. A galaxy is a preponderance of matter producing an awful lot of gravity. A cluster of galaxies produces an incredible amount more gravity. For the velocity to 'not' change then the two other options are to distort space and time.

The space time curvature that our galaxy generates HAS NOT changed
Our ESTIMATE of it has.
Simply put, you added your personal speculations to fit into an article about the estimation of the mass of our galaxy. The sun is not going to physically accelerate by over 400 thousand miles in the space of a few years.

Our transition through the universe if connected by worm holes brings our galaxy to varying influences of gravity. Dark matter is a 'fix' applied by scientists to keep the mathematics working. If dark matter does not exist it means a different approach needs to be applied. That different approach is time variation. The result is a more stable universe and a far more dynamic world. The geological record actually favors the more dynamic world model.

The difference is quite simple:-
Standard model energy is added exponentially to expand the universe breaking the law of thermodynamics
or:-
Time on earth is influenced by its transition through the universe preserving the law of thermodynamics.

Maybe it is just me but why should the universe choose right now to break all the laws to suit our observations just so we don't have to accept we are less significant than our pride allows. To me it is like the step from flat earth to a globe (although even that is still in dispute by some).

I am not saying it is going to happen .. I am saying that I would be astonished if it didn't.

Sorry man, Im not buying it. Any actual proof of this theory? Or only empirical evidence on the as yet unknown cause of pole shift and nature of dark matter vs time distortion? This theory is still just 'cosmology speculation' yes?

Like you said, a new theory could be like the world as a globe, a new era of understanding and all that. But the call you made - sorry, I dont think any rational person could just accept that. Not out of pride - but where is your proof of this? Why aren't you telling the world? Why post on a site like this if you want to be taken seriously?
There are many who would believe you on the spur of the moment - especially here.
But I need more than that. I'd be astonished if this 'change' takes place in my lifetime. If the theory is so strong you can make predictions with it (which you seem pretty sure of) than why isn't it widely accepted as the current model in cosmology?

Tell you what, for now Ill laugh - but if you're right, and I survive long enough!- Ill crack a beer and give you a toast.

But Im right. (That proberly is pride )hehe

What exactly is it called anyway?

I haven't given it a name just a second derivative of an elliptical six dimension Calabi-Yao manifold with a proton based string like symmetry. ds^2=x^2+y^2 is the second derivative of a circle or ellipse where s is distance and (x,y) are Cartesian coordinates. In fairness it is a visual representation of a static universe with a pulse.

My mathematics has been well laughed at as a stretch from a planar membrane into a six dimension structure. It overcame the problem of t=0 by having one element the proton as the basic unit and all other particles as charged, spinning or discrete energy parts. If you took the making of Chinese noodles as the template it would be a good visual.

So it just means I have to wait a bit like everybody else to see if it happens.